__/ [ Larry Qualig ] on Thursday 23 February 2006 19:49 \__
>
> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> __/ [ Larry Qualig ] on Thursday 23 February 2006 18:59 \__
>>
>> >
>> > 7 wrote:
>> >> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > __/ [ B Gruff ] on Thursday 23 February 2006 00:07 \__
>> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>>
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Well well, Dell:-)
>> >> >>
>> >> > Don't get too excited:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>>
http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/precn_380?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd
>> >> >
>> >> > Dell think they can pull a fast one: selling Linux for the same
>> >> > price as
>> >> > the equivalent offering with a Windows XP licence. Just remove the
>> >> > "n"
>> >> > from the model and then search the Web, hitting the first result.
>> >> > The truth is suddenly unravelled.
>> >> >
>> >> > Having said that, it is nice that Dell are making progress. It is no
>> >> > sur- prise either. Michael Dell gave 100 millions dollars _out of his
>> >> > own pock- et_ to Red Hat Linux. That was over 6 months ago if I
>> >> > recall correctly, so
>> >> > it was bound to happen. The open PC (void hard-drive), on the
>> >> > contrary,
>> >> > was /more/ expensive than the equivalent with Windows. So let's call
>> >> > that *progress*, but avoid unnecessary enthusiasm.
>> >> >
>> >> > Roy
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I agree.
>> >> So who cares about Dell$ if they sell PCs with GNU/Linux and
>> >> overcharge? Dell$ nowwhere to be seen when it comes to competitive
>> >> value for money.
>> >>
>> >> There are companies like E-sys that sell supported Linux computers with
>> >> warranty, software like Open Office etc a lot cheaper than dell$.
>> >>
>>
http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/products/index.html?rb=16488053918&action=c2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=89079
>> >> For 127.64 pounds you get a 2.26GHz PC.
>> >
>> >
>> > For the record... that price from E-sys is an *excellent* price. But:
>> >
>> > -> "So who cares about Dell$.... Dell$ nowwhere to be seen when it
>> > comes to competitive value for money."
>> >
>> > The problem is that "E-sys is nowhere to be seen - PERIOD."
>> >
>> > I'd be willing to wager that at most, one maybe two other people in
>> > COLA has even heard of E-sys. I'd also be willing to wager that every
>> > single person here at COLA has heard of Dell. This is even more true of
>> > the general population.
>> >
>> > So it matters very much what Dell does and what some itty-bitty vendor
>> > does really doesn't matter. Sorry to say, that's how things simply
>> > work.
>>
>> Ouch. Boy, do I disagree on this one!
>>
>> The University works very closely with Dell. Merely all desktops around
>> here are being built and shipped by Dell. That's many thousands of them
>> black boxes all around campus. Hypothetically, step into the IT
>> departments and ask the folks here about Dell support. See the responses
>> you get. My close colleague once took careful notes of the times of the
>> day when he called Dell without getting an answer. He was fed up. He then
>> accumulated this list of hours and passed it on as a bitter proof of
>> inexistent support for unreliable hardware.
>>
>> Now, take myself and eSys, for the sake of comparison. Their computer is
>> shipped with a Maxtor hard-drive if I recall correctly. Maxtor have
>> definitely established some good reputation in their sector. Alas, 3 days
>> after I received my first eSys computer, the hard-drive went tits-up. What
>> did I do? I phoned the main branch in London, which gave me the number of
>> a technician. After a while of talking with a guy whose accent was Indian
>> (maybe the call centre was offshorn, yet I suspect eSys is in Asia
>> anyway), he agreed that the hard-drive was faulty; and *not* 'out of the
>> box' so! I just needed to prove this 'on the spot' by going through the
>> BIOS and describing some symptoms. Soon thereafter (only minutes on the
>> phone), Dabs sent a courier to collect my box and replaced it with a shiny
>> new one, without any extra expenses. I only needed to tolerate the absence
>> of a workstation in my bedroom, at least in that interim.
>>
>> Dabs caused me a lot of trouble, including delays and patchy support, but
>> they are totally unrelated to eSys. They were merely the middlemen, of
>> which they are many that eSys negotiate with.
>>
>> So there you go. Dell - s**te support, presumingly bad hardware; eSys -
>> full refund or replacement, immediate response to calls and no need for
>> arguments. I have two Dells machines, by the way. Hardware has given no
>> hassle so far, but I must be among the lucky ones.
>>
>
>
> Roy... that was exactly my point.
>
> -> The University works very closely with Dell. Merely all desktops
> around here are being built and shipped by Dell. That's many
> ***thousands*** of them black boxes all around campus....
>
> -> Now, take myself and eSys, for the sake of comparison....Dabs sent a
> courier to collect ***my box***
>
> -> So there you go. Dell - s**te support, presumingly bad hardware;
> eSys - full refund or replacementneed for
>
>
> It's not a matter of who builds better computers or who has better
> support. It's a matter of your "one box" compared to the "thousands" of
> Dell boxes at the university. The quantity of computers that Dell sells
> and ships is what drives public perception and influences buyers, not
> the few that eSys sells. What's also relevant is that >50% of all
> computers sold today are laptops.
I am baffled. As the argument regarding laptops is irrelevant, let us look at
the remainder.
First you make an argument that the *quality* of machines from smaller (side
note: often more motivated, have something to prove) vendors is lower. When
the argument was invalidated, you the opted for a different one, most
possibly for convenience. The issue of availability, the issue of *quantity*
is a no-issue. If you gave eSys enough time and showed there is demand
(market is driven by demand), I am sure they would have built the machines
happily and very quickly. They would have soon put them all on the next
ship.
Regarding the issue of advertisements (separate route down the path, appended
below for context), I am disappointed that someone seemingly witty like
yourself considers that a worthwhile factor. I sometimes abstain from buying
products that are advertised excessively. With advertisements everywhere, I
know where my expenses goes: not better products that are composed from
higher-quality raw ingredients, but rather a propaganda which involves air
time, 'hip' designers and label/logo/package-making.
All in all, I continue to disagree with you on that one.
__/ [ Larry Qualig ] on Friday 24 February 2006 03:11 \__
> For someone the size of Dell it is a small order. Ebuyer may have a
> total of 330 in stock. Dell probably ships that many in under an hour.
> It's ridiculous trying to compare "Ebuyer" to Dell who happens to sell
> more computers than anyone else in the world.
>
> I see lots of Dell commercials on TV. Where are all those EBuyer
> commercials? Just about every magazine and newspaper has Dell adds.
> I've never-ever seen an add for EBuyer. I've been reading computer
> publications for years now. I never heard of EBuyer until today.
--
Roy S. Schestowitz | Useless fact: Florida is bigger than England
http://Schestowitz.com | SuSE Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
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