__/ [ Logician ] on Thursday 09 March 2006 07:06 \__
>
> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> __/ [ Logician ] on Wednesday 08 March 2006 19:18 \__
>>
>> >
>> > T.J. wrote:
>> >> "Logician" <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> news:1141842820.379550.42300@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >
>> >> > T.J. wrote:
>> >> >> "Logician" <sales@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
>> >> >> news:1141841502.659875.71790@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> >> >> >> __/ [ Logician ] on Wednesday 08 March 2006 17:25 \__
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> > I sell bathrooms, and one of my competitors is apparently
>> >> >> >> > selling a lot
>> >> >> >> > via taps4less.com, by a lot I mean a large amount (think what
>> >> >> >> > an average guy earns per year, multiply by a few times, and
>> >> >> >> > that's the monthly income).
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Is there any way to see how the site is getting so much
>> >> >> >> > business? ie to
>> >> >> >> > check out the sources of leads?
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Ideally, you would get access to that foreign server and grab the
>> >> >> >> logs.
>> >> >> >> That
>> >> >> >> would be the only way for the full story to be revealed. Of
>> >> >> >> course it is
>> >> >> >> rarely possible and illegal too (I am being cynical here).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> In practice, what you could probably do is derive estimates from
>> >> >> >> channels
>> >> >> >> of
>> >> >> >> traffic by looking at the competitor's placement for various
>> >> >> >> search terms
>> >> >> >> and making a gross comparison based on the number of referrlas
>> >> >> >> that you
>> >> >> >> get
>> >> >> >> for the same query. If for some given search phrase you get a
>> >> >> >> certain number
>> >> >> >> of referrals and your poisition is X, then depending on the
>> >> >> >> position Y of
>> >> >> >> the competitor, you could possibly estimate how many people
>> >> >> >> percolate through that SERP to 'that other' site. There are more
>> >> >> >> factor to consider
>> >> >> >> like page title, summary, etc. Other than that you could identify
>> >> >> >> backlinks
>> >> >> >> and estimate how much traffic should be expected.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Lastly, remember that people over-inflate figures, so take
>> >> >> >> whatever you
>> >> >> >> hear
>> >> >> >> with a grain of salt.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > The figures are accurate - they are very reliable. I am talking
>> >> >> > about money figures not clicks or visitors.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> But do you know the outgoings?
>> >> >
>> >> > I know they use shopping.com which is 20p/click, and Google adwords
>> >> >
>> >> >> It's like gamblers, they always like to talk about
>> >> >> the wins, but you rarely here about the losses.
>> >> >
>> >> > Yes, but this information is really real. I checked out the site and
>> >> > there is a lot of clever advertising, eg
>> >> >
>> >> > - discounts are given for RRP and then VAT is added for the sale, but
>> >> > RRP already has the VAT included. So the saving is not real (out by
>> >> > VAT).
>> >> > - also the restocking charges stock goods going back easily.
>> >> > Re-stocking was illegal under DSR but I am not a lawyer. the law used
>> >> > to say all returns are exempt from re-stocking charges for 7 days.
>> >> >
>> >> > But I will try and find out what they are doing to get so much
>> >> > income.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Yes, it is a nicely set out site for selling stuff,
>> >> Optimising isn't everything.
>> >> If they have access to the right products, at the
>> >> right price, have a good shopping cart, have good sales
>> >> staff and someone clever at doing the ads that is exactly
>> >> the sort of thing AdWords is perfect for.
>> >> It's all about ROI.
>> >> They may be spending £100k a month on Adwords and
>> >> Overture but if that brings back £120 k a month then good
>> >> luck to them.
>> >
>> > How did you get £100k? That's sounds very high.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Regarding the DSR:
>> >> They could argue that they sell predominantly Business to
>> >> Business, but if the crunch came and if a consumer stood
>> >> their ground, they wouldn't have to pay a re-stocking fee,
>> >> but as the company already have the money, would many
>> >> consumers go to the trouble of taking them to court?
>> > The site is retail not business to business.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> If you think the ads are blatantly misleading concerning the
>> >> RRP, you could try reporting them trading standards, but
>> >> I doubt it will have much effect.
>> > They just fake the savings.
>>
>> Logician, the time you spend worrying about the competition could better
>> be spent improving your site. The same applies to statistics vanity and
>> excessive analysis. It can be distracting and discouraging, which is
>> unhelpful and counter-productive.
>
> How much retail have you done? My guess is not very much. Your comment
> about "competition" shows you have almost no knowledge at all about
> sales, branding, and retail. I feel sorry for anyone trusting your
> judgement.
>
> The world is full of people with "opinions" and very few of them are
> worth hearing. Sadly, a lot of people with "opinions" don't understand
> the worthlessness of their views.
>
> I have now discovered that a lot of sales are from ebay and nothing to
> do with taps4less.com, also the site has 17,000 entries at PPC sites
> and only 170 pages listed in google.com.
>
> My site gets good comments from people, and that is because the content
> aspect of it. It is very easy work to improve layout etc, and work
> normally done by inexperienced people.
>
> The technical aspects and supply aspects are far more advanced.
>
> I really wonder about SEO "experts."
That's a fair assessment. I have not done retail and your proved me wrong. I
stand corrected.
Best wishes,
Roy
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