Roy Schestowitz wrote in <1802234.sJPAfh6kM9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> on Sat May 13
2006 23:48:
> __/ [ Michael B. Trausch ] on Sunday 14 May 2006 00:59 \__
>
> Michael,
>
> Thanks for snipping out Tab's earlier pearls of wisdom (or droppings
> thereof). I'll just have a quick stab at it...
>
Yeah, I didn't have the desire to go through everything, just because most
of it seemed rather moot to me. So I stripped everything I didn't have
something to say for, to save on the readers. :) Since these posts can
get to be rather long anyway, it's just better to cut out the things that
you're not bothering to respond to, IMHO.
> __/ [ rapskat ] on Saturday 13 May 2006 18:35 \__
>
>> So, what exactly are Linux desktop users missing out on? A few
>> proprietary apps whose functionality is available through various freely
>> available OSS projects?
>>
>> Tell us exactly, tabulator...what is that you can do with a Windows
>> system that I can't do with my Linux system, besides contract malware
>> (and we can do that too, we just don't like to ;-).
>>
>> For all you flapping about how Windows is all this and that and Linux
>> isn't, you haven't yet provided any exclusive functionality that Windows
>> users enjoy that Linux users simply can't.
>>
>> I'll be waiting.
>
> All points are valid, but I would like to add that many Linux systems come
> with these "freely available OSS projects" out of the box. This is not the
> case with Windows servers (I am familiar with the hosting domain) where
> even something as fundamental as site statistics needs to be paid for and
> then installed or enabled. What a PITA. What a ripoff.
>
Yeah, this is for sure. I'm of the mindset that Windows doesn't belong in
the server market, although there are a great deal that would tell me that
I'm absolutely wrong on this. That having been said, there are tons of
things that I always feel are lacking on a new Windows installation. I
have people that come to me to install Windows on their computers, and
after doing so, they generally ask why it takes so long, and I explain it
to them. I hate the setup of Windows-based systems. I really should
probably eventually try and borrow access to somebody's Windows machine and
write up a post-installation script for me to use on Windows installs so
that I can cut that time down at least a little bit.
>>
>> My girlfriends both use Linux. One of them never touches the command
>> line,
>> as she doesn't have any need to. The other one does when she needs to
>> (she uses SSH for tunnelling an application from home to her office PC),
>> though that could very easily be automated using something like a shell
>> script or
>> Windows Scripting Host on the Windows side of things. I did that in the
>> office at one of my jobs so that everybody would have access to a UNIX
>> application (HP OpenView) simply by clicking on an icon on their desktop
>> and running with it. It would've been slightly easier for me to do this
>> under Linux or another UNIX-like system running your typical shells,
>> since I'm more familiar with shell scripting then WSH, but it worked
>> nonetheless.
>
> For a pure GUI experience, I suggest you take a look at KSSH. Also, once
> connected over SSH with X forwarding enabled (ssh -x), be sure to run
> kicker (KDE) or gnome-panel (GNOME). The environment is imported in its
> entirety over SSH. The comment line needn't be visible. If you set up
> .bashrc to include kicker/gnome-panel/other, this might even be
> transparent and you can think of the command-line as a non-obligatory
> status box/bar. YMMV in accordance with the user.
>
Hrm. I'll have to look into that. I know that Erica doesn't mind using the
command line to get into her computer -- she basically uses PuTTY and Xming
at work, and ssh's into the "gateway" computer that I have here, and then
into her system, and then she starts up whatever programs that she wants to
use from work. Usually, she only uses KMyMoney at work so that she can
enter things like the gas that she put in the car, or something that she
bought online while at work, into her finance management system so that she
doesn't forget to do that later. Since those are really the only CLI
things she does, she has them already in her shell history and just hits
the keyboard's UP arrow to get them out, and press ENTER. :-)
>
> I have little to add here, but it's merely a sign of consent.
>
> SSH is a lightweight method (comprae with Citrix client), which enables
> you to 'strain' a lot of function even when the user has a modem
> connection (telnet becomes viable). As everything is a file in Linux and
> many command-line utilities exist, the routes to solving a problem may
> often be quicker. No command-line familiarity? No problem. Just launch the
> GUI equivalent. And wait, and wait, and wait... for small changes to files
> (a characeter or two), I have begun using vim, just because it's quicker.
>
I have yet to actually check out version 7 of vim. I usually have used vim
to make quick changes to things, or out of an old habit that I've tried to
break for a long time ('vi' was the only thing I knew how to use for a long
time, and then I'd fallen across emacs). The biggest thing that I have a
love/hate relationship with WRT to vi/vim is the way that you start up in
command mode by default. I like to open the editor and start going to
town, so to speak, so lately I've been using emacs more and more. I may
have to check vi out, though, with some of the new programming friendly
features that it seems to have in the 7.0 release.
>
>>> Now, there are tons of software, in the law field, that run on WINDOWS
>>> only. Objection, Amicus, Abacus, HotDocs. Where is the like in Linux?
>>> Hell, I can't even log onto the SUPREME COURT of OHIO and pay dues,
>>> with FIREFOX.
>>>
>>
>> This is a problem with the web designers that work on the site for the
>> State
>> of Ohio. In fact, this is most probably in violation of Federal laws
>> which
>> provide accessibility requirements to web sites. They should be using
>> standards-based code that runs in a portable fashion. After all, the
>> Internet never has been a heterogeneous network of computers -- and I
>> don't see that it ever will be.
>
> Rest assured that the State of Ohio has received many complaints
> /already/. As it truly is an offence, based on Federal law, the developers
> will be told off and be forced to rectify the matter. It's only /their/
> loss.
>
Well, that's good. Unfortunately, getting people to comply with law isn't
as easy as it should be (a great example of that is the amount of pirated
software -- Microsoft and otherwise -- floating around the Internet). The
law tends to be something that more and more people have little regard for
these days, in all territories, not just computers and accessibility.
>>
>> I've always rather preferred using a console to play games. I like to
>> work
>> on my computer, and play elsewhere. However, this is just a preference.
>> If I want to play games like Solitaire, Connect Four, Othello, Chess,
>> whatever, I have that on my computer, and sometimes I do. But for other
>> types of games, I much prefer a console, or a console remade into a
>> computer with controllers, for that. I *hate* using my computer for
>> things
>> like playing my old Nintendo games. I don't see the point. Mind you,
>> however, this is just a matter of my opinion; you're certainly free to
>> have your own opinions.
>
> Why even agree that Linux has no games? It's a fallacy. Many games run
> natively on Linux. Other than that, there's Wine and other similar tools
> such as virtualisation, Win4Linux, CrossOver Office, and other whose
> existence doesn't spring to mind immediately.
>
Au contraire -- I certainly didn't agree that Linux didn't have games. I
just said that when discussing matters of productivity, I'm not sure that
it mattered, though not in so few words. I mentioned some of the rather
simplistic games that I play on my PC, and well, while I don't have any
working console systems right now, I do sometimes take a game break and
play old NES and SNES games of mine on my computer.
There are plenty of games -- many can be found at the Linux Game Tome at
http://happypenguin.org/ -- and quite a few can be found in various
distributions' package repositories. Game performance is quite good, too.
And let's not forget TuxRacer, which is rather fun for a "I have nothing
that I want to work on" moment or two. ;-)
>>
>>>
>>> Good thinking. Do you work for Play Station by chance?
>>>
>>
>> There's a company called "Play Station"? That's new to me... I thought
>> PlayStation consoles were made by Sony...
>
> As you can see, he is not /that/ bright. But he's harmless...
>
:-) Yeah, well. I find it funny when people say things like that. It just
shows their ignorance -- or laziness -- in properly stating things.
- Mike
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