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Why don’t you just shut up?
,----[ Quote ]
| A lot of times, mono critics are told we should just “shut up”. Everything
| that needs to be said has been said, no one is going to change their mind,
| and there is no point in going on about things.
|
| Let me tell you why I reject that.
|
| [...]
|
| Reason four: It is too important
|
| We aren’t talking about arguing over the One True Brace Style here. Team Mono
| wants to be on your desktop. They want more Mono and even Moonlight up in
| GNOME. If they get GNOME based on .NET, then you can bet your sweet object
| code they are coming for KDE.
|
| Reason five: It sets a bad precedent
|
| First was C#/CLI, then .NET, then Moonlight. Each iteration has been less
| Free and more risky to build on. Each one is ever closer to some exclusive
| Novell-Microsoft arrangement.
|
| What of the next Microsoft technology that Team Mono decides needs to be
| cloned? Microsoft can afford to have every component integrate tightly – in
| fact, it is to thier advantage to do so. But we who rely on standards and \
| promises to protect us can not be so cavalier.
|
| Reason six: That’s what Novell wants
|
| Listen, Novell management is not a bunch of idiots. There can be no question
| that they knew entering into a relationship with Microsoft would be taken as
| a betrayal of the community. There is no doubt in my military mind they sat
| down and tried to judge the cost as best they could, and you know what they
| came up with...
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/17/why-dont-you-just-shut-up/
Ubuntu Free Speech Zones
,----[ Quote ]
| Time to draw attention to the “Free Speech Zone” on the Ubuntu Forums.
|
| The target
|
| For perfectly understandable reasons, Team Mono is really targeting Ubuntu to
| get ever more mono applications in by default. Banshee is virtually a given
| at this point, and GNOME-Do is a likely follow up. There is a blizzard of
| pro-mono misinformation on the Ubuntu Forums – which it breaks my heart to
| say, doesn’t exactly have quite same level of intellectual rigor as the
| Dialogues of Plato.
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/18/ubuntu-free-speech-zones/
The truth about the Mono logo
http://www.stefanoforenza.com/the-truth-about-the-mono-logo/
disappointed
http://robertmh.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/disappointed/
Linux Today Readers Speak on Chrome, Mono, and Best Beginner Programming
Languages
,----[ Quote ]
| [phred14] [Who is asking for Mono?]
| Simple answer - nobody. Mono is being pushed into Linux, not pulled. So far
| the one application that's dragging it into "default" isn't even very
| important, and Mono/C# isn't even critical. A Mono-free C#-free clone of that
| application was built in practically no time.
|
| Simply put, Mono gives Microsoft control over a Linux desktop API, even
| without patent threats. The ECMA standard is irrelevant, if only because it's
| incomplete, and *always* needs extensions. In order to field a functional,
| complete Mono, you need to start cloning Microsoft stuff. You may as well
| base the Linux UI on WINE."
|
| [GreyGeek] [Re: Re: Re: Mono a solution looking for a problem?]
|
| [...]
|
| The lack of MONO apps IS glaring, isn't it!
|
| What's even MORE glaring is that De Icaza has been working on MONO since
| December of 2000, when he changed the name of his company, Helix Code, to
| Ximian in order to focus on developing MONO. Yet, NINE years later there is
| only a handful of MONO apps. IF MONO is the such a marvelous RAD tool, why
| has it taken so long to produce so few applications?
|
| Also, if .NET is such a marvelous CROSS PLATFORM tool where code written on
| one platform can be recompiled with few or no changes on another platform,
| WHY isn't Linux being FLOODED with .NET applications?
|
| The answer is simple. MONO is a patent trap and most Penguins realize it. So,
| just like it did with the ISO committees, Microsoft is flooding the Linux
| development groups with .NET moles and the Linux forums with astroturfers and
| TEs.
`----
http://blog.linuxtoday.com/blog/2009/07/linux-today-rea.html
"We could refresh the look and feel of the entire desktop with Moonlight"
--Miguel de Icaza
Recent:
Banshee and F-Spot to depend on Moonlight
,----[ Quote ]
| Planet Debian points to the news that Banshee and F-Spot is going to depend
| on Moonlight in the future. Moonlight is forbidden from Fedora. If this
| happens, Banshee and F-Spot have to be dropped from Fedora.
`----
http://mether.wordpress.com/2009/07/17/banshee-and-f-spot-to-depend-on-moonlight/
On Patents, Promises and 'Ugly' Patches
,----[ Quote ]
| "If you honestly think this will lead to cross-platform development, then you
| need your head checked," wrote Josh in the comments on TuxRadar, for
| example. "Since when has Microsoft had any sincere interest in cross-platform
| anything?
|
| "It looks to me like a classic Trojan horse," Josh concluded, "and Miguel de
| Icaza is a tool."
|
| Similarly: "This Mono thing looks a bit like a Trojan horse," agreed kt on
| LXer, where the topic was covered in not just one but two separate threads
`----.
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/On-Patents-Promises-and-Ugly-Patches-67607.html?wlc=1247803503
FSF says Microsoft Mono move full of loopholes
,----[ Quote ]
| The statement conclude by saying that if Microsoft wanted to genuinely
| reassure free software users that it had no intention of suing them for using
| Mono, "it should grant the public an irrevocable patent license for all of
| its patents that Mono actually exercises."
`----
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26363/1090/
Novell Promotes Mono in GNOME?
,----[ Quote ]
| In a comment on another post, Chris Halse Rogers raised an interesting and
| challenging question: “What evidence is there that Novell, the company, is
| promoting adoption of Mono into GNOME?”
|
| Here’s where I attempt to answer that question!
| The easy part
|
| It’s always more effective to knock out the easy stuff first. So let’s
| establish that the premise is at least reasonable. Here are some facts. Facts
| are a nice way to start:
|
| 1. Mono is a Novell project.
| 2. Novell is on the GNOME Foundation’s Advisory Board.
| 3. Mono is lead at Novell by the founder of GNOME, Miguel de Icaza.
| 4. Mr. de Icaza has said in the past, “Gnome 4.0 should be based on .NET“
| 5. Mr. de Icaza claims to be “in charge of Novell’s Linux Desktop
| Strategy” along with Nat Friedman.
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/15/novell-promotes-mono-in-gnome/
One thing nobody told you about Mono
,----[ Quote ]
| The first meme being directed to Richard Stallman for citing ‘eMacs virgins’
| in a speech and the other one only gods knows whom.
|
| While the latter is just is yet another generalist campaign (like the
| infamous “hey, even double click is patented!”) the first is a frontal attack
| to Richard Stallman as a person: knives coming out all of a sudden.
|
| Even the Canonical CTO blogged about it.
|
| While the video isn’t available yet, I have big doubts there is something
| even remotely offensive in such Stallman talk. It’s very easy to take
| feminism as an excuse, as many people (not just girls) will jump in
| no-matter-what without even knowing what it’s being talked about.
`----
http://www.stefanoforenza.com/one-thing-nobody-told-you-about-mono/
Mono: Why is Debian resorting to spin?
,----[ Quote ]
| Mouette, it may be recalled, is the developer who had posted what were
| considered sexist posts to the Debian project mailing list meant for
| important announcements for developers.
|
| (Mono is an open source implementation of parts of Microsoft's .NET
| development environment; many sections of the FOSS community fear that Mono
| may prove to be a patent trap down the line as .NET is totally Microsoft
| technology. Recent statements have done little to dispel this impression.)
|
| I asked the Debian leader Steve McIntyre a few queries about the Mono change
| and he, as always, sent back straightforward replies. McIntyre, I may add,
| has always been open and upfront in dealing with iTWire.
|
| But after Free Software Foundation chief Richard Stallman called the Debian
| move risky - he based the statement on the inference that a decision on
| including Mono in the Debian default install had already been taken - Debian
| spokesman Alexander Reichle-Schmehl decided that the project had to speak up
| and did so by trying to explain things through a post on his blog.
`----
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26291/1090/
The Mono Firefight
,----[ Quote ]
| Well there are issues around Mono, including patents. This means that some
| people, myself included now refuse to use it. Those that are pro-mono don't
| seem to understand exactly why everyone isn't shouting hosannas over their
| projects. Indeed one of them classified Tomboy as 'An Exciting Program',
| which stunned me. Tomboy? Exciting? I didn't think so.
`----
http://crankyoldnutcase.blogspot.com/2009/07/mono-firefight.html
Microsoft Mono move means exactly nothing
,----[ Quote ]
| When Britain was the superpower of the world, there was one tactic which its
| officials used, with great success, to manage its colonies - divide and rule.
`----
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/26224/1090/
Google vs. Microsoft – A study in contrasts
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/14/google-vs-microsoft-a-study-in-contrasts/
SFLC Podcast on Mono
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/14/sflc-podcast-on-mono/
Patented Languages
,----[ Quote ]
| Bradley and Karen discuss the community debate regarding C# and Mono, and its
| inclusion in GNU/Linux distributions.
`----
http://www.softwarefreedom.org/podcast/2009/jul/07/0x11/
Monomania affecting Ubuntu users far and wide?
,----[ Quote ]
| How on earth could a 19th century detective know about the long running saga
| of a rather large and bloated software stack designed, it seems, simply to
| drive a wedge into the FOSS community and act as a trojan horse for our most
| [ahem] loved convicted monopolist?
`----
http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2009/07/14/monomania-affecting-ubuntu-users-far-and-wide/
Who’s that knocking at my door?
,----[ Quote ]
| Many mono apologists like to portray critics as fanatics, aggressively
| opposed to anything Microsoft-related
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/02/whos-that-knocking-at-my-door/
Some other sane views on RMS
,----[ Quote ]
| So now that we have Stallman painted with the “sexist” brush, I see some
| people casting glances to the “Death Threat Crazy” and “Nazi” brushes.
|
| Let me clear: I wasn’t at the conference, and I don’t know exactly what
| Stallman said. It is possible he made an inappropriate remark. Some
| reasonable people say it was a joke gone bad; stuff like that happens.But,
| even if it were an honest-to-good malicious sexist remark (unlikely
| considering Stallman has a long record of supporting women’s rights in his
| writings and interviews), the character assassination has been totally
| disproportionate to the event. He may indeed need a word of correction from a
| trusted friend or even a letter of concern from a respected group. What he
| doesn’t need or deserve is a pack of snarling jackals lumping him in with
| lunatics making death threats and freaking Nazis. (Assuming the death threat
| thing is legit, I haven’t looked it up. I know I got a lot of death threats
| from owning peeps in Quake, so that junk can be serious business.)
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/13/some-other-sane-views-on-rms/
There. Fixed that for you.
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/13/there-fixed-that-for-you/
In the Shadows of .Net
,----[ Quote ]
| Back in 2006, we put our trust in Mono because we refused, or perhaps
| disliked, to vilify a project solely because it emulated something created at
| Microsoft. While Open Source backers generally dislike Microsoft technology,
| with Mono they had another argument that being a clone it could be affected
| by a number of patents that Microsoft holds related to the .Net framework.
| This point often comes up in debates about the “safety” of the Mono project,
| the defense of Mono being that large parts of the .Net specification are an
| open, published ECMA standard. I sided with the Mono supporters then,
| downplaying the risk of patents from Microsoft. But then in November,
| Microsoft and Novell announced their Patent Agreement, which guarantees
| patent protection exclusively for users of Novell Linux. The Mono project is
| largely supported by Novell, and such an agreement is disastrous for a
| community project like Mono. At this point, the fence-sitters in the Open
| Source community largely crossed over to the anti-Mono camp. Perhaps, they
| were justified in doing so. I could no longer defend Mono, and my belief in
| the framework getting wider acceptance has diminished significantly since
| then.
|
| [...]
|
| It is entirely possible that Mono can suddenly gain acceptance if Microsoft
| decides to relinquish patent claims regarding the .Net framework. If it
| happens, .Net and Mono could well become an powerful challenger to the
| dominance of Java. This is very unlikely, Microsoft’s current strategy seems
| to be relying strongly on patents and IP to ward off the looming threat from
| Linux.
|
| For now, we decided to look beyond Mono and C#.
`----
http://blog.agilehead.com/content/from-c-on-mono-to-clojure-on-the-jvm/
C#, see submarine
,----[ Quote ]
| A similar kind of encumbrance would be if MIT (or Xorg) could retroactively
| re-license the X11 libraries to something proprietary (note: they cannot),
| thereby removing the platform upon which all Free Software X11 applications
| are built; it would be a risk, and given the importance of Free Software, a
| risk where the expected value of a manifestation is huge.
|
| This isn’t to say there’s not other submarines in the water. We don’t know.
| Maybe we should. The known submarine should be treated with caution. And the
| side of caution is to treat C# as a non-Free platform to be avoided.
`----
http://blogs.fsfe.org/adridg/?p=157
Are Microsoft's Promises For Ever?
,----[ Quote ]
| Now, is it just me, or does Microsoft conspicuously fail to answer its own
| question? The question was: does it apply to all versions *including* future
| revision? And Microsoft's answer is about *existing* versions: so doesn't
| that mean it could simply not apply the promise to a future version? Isn't
| this the same problem as with the Open Specification Promise? Just asking.
`----
http://opendotdotdot.blogspot.com/2009/07/are-microsofts-promises-for-ever.html
And the knives come out
,----[ Quote ]
| I told you the knives would come out for Stallman.
|
| [...]
|
| The sad thing is, much of the damage is already done. Stallman is facing a
| concerted attack on his character and competence and stands little chance of
| coming through it unscathed. Such is the penalty for daring to critize Mono.
| This garbage is already all over Planet Gnome, Planet Debian, Monologue and
| spreading.
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/12/and-the-knives-come-out/
Boycott Novell is Back!
,----[ Quote ]
| If I had to list my concerns around the Promise I would come up with a
| slightly different list:
|
| 1. Standard bits alone are not enough to deliver killer apps. We have
| several Microsoft emails about limiting the usefulness of what was
| standardized, so we know they at least discussed this internally.
| 2. The Community Promise has that restriction that the Open Specification
| Promise does not. By not extending the Promise to partial implementations,
| it could “lock out” alternative implementations of the standard. Limited
| sub-sets of languages are a common practice in the industry for
| specialized purposes.
| 3. The Community Promise will constantly be misrepresented as covering the
| whole of mono – giving a false veneer of security over the non-covered
| bits (which end up to be the “juicy parts”)
| 4. The Community Promise only applies to the current version. This could
| be used by Microsoft to “freeze out” competing implementations. Just
| update the standard, but not the promise.
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/09/boycott-novell-is-back/
Criticism where it is due
,----[ Quote ]
| Consider that we know for a fact that F-Spot and Banshee, at least, use
| non-ECMA covered parts of mono. Maybe they will be re-written soon. That’s
| great. But at the time of the announcement and currently, they were and are
| not covered by the standard, and so not covered by the agreement.
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/10/criticism-where-it-is-due/
Windows developers on mono
,----[ Quote ]
| There are many such internal documents that clearly show Microsoft
| understands exactly what standardizing parts of .NET means, and how to keep
| that offering in control and inferior to .NET. If Mono is not “chasing” .NET,
| then it fails to meet Windows developers expectations. If Mono
| is “chasing” .NET, then it both runs the risk of anti-competitive tactics on
| the non-standard parts, and is undertaking a task not likely to succeed.
`----
http://mono-nono.com/2009/07/11/windows-developers-on-mono/
Debian plans draw sharp warning from GNU guru
,----[ Quote ]
| As the Debian project releases a second update of its Debian GNU/Linux 5.0
| ("Lenny") distribution, a controversy has broken out over the next
| version, "Squeeze." GNU guru Richard Stallman has warned that by including a
| Mono-based note-taking application called Tomboy, Debian runs the risk of
| Microsoft litigation over C# patents.
`----
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS4526886823.html
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