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[News] [Rival] Groklaw is Piling up Evidence of Microsoft Crimes

  • Subject: [News] [Rival] Groklaw is Piling up Evidence of Microsoft Crimes
  • From: Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 01:55:43 +0000
  • Followup-to: comp.os.linux.advocacy
  • Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy
  • User-agent: KNode/4.3.1
Hash: SHA1

Finishing up the Comes Collection - Please Can You Help?

,----[ Quote ]
| The material is essentially a dump of all the 
| data that the plaintiffs in Comes v. Microsoft 
| put on their website, including transcripts of 
| the trial and all the exhibits entered into 
| the case. We're trying to give the data a more 
| meaningful structure so that it will be 
| possible to search by keyword and find 
| particular items in the huge collection.


Comes v. Microsoft Transcripts


Comes v. Microsoft

- ----Original Message----
From: Nathan Myhrvold
Sent  Sunday February 15, 1998 12:37 PM
To:   Bill Gates; Tod Nielsen; Brad Chase; David Cole; Joe
Belfiore; Mich Mathews; Greg Shaw Corp.
PR gregshaw); Tom Pilla; Alison Obrien; Bill Neukom (LCA); David
Heiner (LCA); Steve Ballmer;
Mitch Mathews; Eric Rudder; Yusuf Mehdi; Steve Ballmer; Paul
Martz; Jim Allchin; (Exchange)

Subject: RE: browser in the OS

It is a GREAT idea to get as much quotable data as possible -
both for Bills testimony and for other press work. By "quotable
data" I mean:

â Specific people we can quote. Professor Detrouzos of MIT s a
GREAT quotable source - he is very hard core on this. Bob
Metcalfe, Stewart Alsop, Esther Dyson, Walt Mossberg and others
have written in their vanous magazine columns that they agree
the browser should be in the OS - we should look up the
references and check them.

â  Surveys we can use. This could be an internally done survey,
or one done by a polling company.

â  Signed statement, think that we could make a statement and
get specific people to sign up to it - including computer
science professors, industry figures etc. This includes both
people who are already on the record as saying that this is a
good idea, as well as other folks. Ideally it includes both
supporters (Michael Dell etc.) and impartial observers
(Metcalfe. Dyson etc.) and also some competitors (Schmidt would
be great. but at least Scott Cook. Gordon Eubanks).

We Should get as much as we can qet soon as we can get it.

As an example, we could get a statement about the technical
direction of integration, get some survey results, and then get
a statement signed by 100 industry and computer science figures.

If we had that, then I think we should consider running it in
full page ads in the WSJ, NYT, Washington Post timed to appear
the day AFTER Bill does the testimony.

We should keep this VERY quiet before the testimony because we
do not want Barksdale or others preparing a counterattack, Bill
should lead with this in his testimony, then we run the big full
page ads the next day, and repeat for a couple days.

That is about the method. As to the SUBSTANCE, I think that it
is CRUCIAL to make the statement we ask people about in the
survey, or the statement we ask them to sign etc. is worded

Saying "put the browser in the OS" is already a statement that
is prejudical to us. The name "Browser" suggests a separate
thing. I would NOT phrase the survey, or other things only in
terms of "put the browser in the OS".

Instead you need to ask a more neutral question about how
Internet technology needs to merge with local computing. I have
been pretty successful in trying this on various journalists and
industry people.
Here is an example:
- ------------------
Basic message


MS98 0122146

<hr />

In the early days of personal computing, the data that a person
created or interacted with was all local to the machine - it sat
there on the hard disk. You would explore or navigate that data
by putting âfiles" into "folders", which were themselves
organized hierarchically in "directoriesâ The operating system
included programs to deal with these structures for organizing
local data.

In order to look at the files you had to use a variety of
different programs. Many incompatible and proprietary file
formats evolved, and each required different programs to open at
look at them, and had different ways of being organized.

Along came the Internet. When a user connects to the Internet
they are suddenly in contact with millions of sites all over the
world. Those sites are organized using a different metaphor than
local files. Instead of being in folders and directories and so
forth, you get to them by clicking on links. The links are
embedded in a universal data format called HTML.

Why have two different ways to look at and organize data? The
simplest thing for users is to have one metaphor - which means
that the system of folders, directories and files has to be
updated. The programs that let you deal with folders,
directories and files in the old PC way has to be updated to use
links the way the Internet does, and be able to display HTML.

Local data and remote data should be treated on an equal basis.
Users should not have to learn one metaphor for the Internet and
a different one for their own files. The whole point of the
Internet is abstracting away geography. You can bounce from one
link to another, unaware of the continents you are crossing. Why
should your own hard disk be the one exception?

Once you take this point of view, there are many opportunities
to make Internet computing and local computing converge. Many of
the data files an the local hard disk can migrate to HTML so
that they can be viewed with the same universal data format.
Local folders and directories can become pages. Even the
background picture for the system can become an active web page,
a stock market ticker or a series of news flashes.

Responses given if pressed

Microsoft has a vision to integrate local computing with
internet Computing. This means building the fundamental Internet
protocols into the operating system.

Netscape is on a different strategy. They are NOT attempting to
make local data, or local PC computing mesh smoothly with the
Internet. Instead, their strategy is to replace local computing
by integrating more and more functionality into their software.
They are creating new APIs to turn their browser into a high
level operating system, which will obviate use of a local
operating system, like Windows.
They feel that the Browser is the platform.

This boils down to a fundamentally different view of the
technology. The competition between Microsoft and Netscape isnât
just about one company versus another - we have each made very
dlfferem technical bets.

Microsoft is telling its millions of existing users that there
is a path for them to use the Internet metaphor both locally and
remotely. Netscape is telling people to put with the difference
between their local PC and the Internet, and that overime you

MS98 0122147

<hr />

throw out your old software in favor of new software and
services which operate on top of the Netscape platform.

Microsoft wants to optimize the Windows platform for the
Internet. Netscape wants people to forget about local platforms
altogether and only Consider Netscape itself as the platform.

This is a case or different technical visions competing in the
marketplace. We think our vision is clearly better for users
than the Netscape approach. Reviewers and industry experts who
have taken a look at IE 4.0 have agreed us, but ultimately it is
the customer who will decide.


From: Bill Gates
Sent: Saturday, Febuary 14, 1998 10:42 AM
To: Tod Nielsen; Brad Chase; David Cole
Cc: Bill Neukom (LCA); David Heiner (LCA); Steve Ballmer; Mitch
Mathews; Eric Rudder;
Yusuf Mehdi; Steve Ballmer; Nathan Myhrvold; Paul Martz; Jim
Allchin; (Exchange)

Subject: Browser in the OS

Some part of this debate relates to the issue of whether the
browser is a logical extension of the operating system.

When I explain to people what we are doing with help - moving
away from a proprietary format with soecial toois to HTML and
how that hleps users people start to understand. When I explain
about bowsing information locally and remotely people
understand. When I talk about letting ISVs call our html for
LOCAL and remote display as well as link resolution etc...
people start to understand. I also think we need to talk about
our use of HTML for forms. Only by doing a document that
EXPLAINS why we are putting the browser into the operating
system will people start to have more sympathy for why this
makes sense and understand that the  government shouldnât be
blockng this.

Right now people think the ONLY reason we are putting the
browser into the OS is to gain share which just is not true we
didnât get share from IE 1 in the OS or IE 2. IE 3 got us share
before it was in the OS because it was a strong product.

I think we need to do a piece on WHY we are putting the browser
into the operating system and our future plans. I think we need
to make that document widely known.

I want to get Eric Schmidt in particular to comment on whether
he thinks it makes sense or not. I wonder who really thinks
browsers donât belong in the OS. Detrouzos of MIT told me how he
had been saying this before Netscape was founded and even said
so in some speeches.

More important I want to get a survey done where ISVs declare
whether they think having the browser in the operating System
the way we are planning to do it makes sense and is good. We
might want to do some users as well.

We have never put crazy stuff into the OS and its time for
people to know we are doing this for developers and customers.


<hr />

It would HELP ME IMMENSLY to have a survey showing that 90% of
developers believe that putting the browser into the OS makes
sense. I am sure we will get like 60% before we explain our
plans. Once we explain our plans properly I think we will get
more like 90%.

Even that insane SPA document didn't try to suggest that
browsers don't belong in the OS.

Ideally we would have a survey like this done before I appear at
the Senate on March 3rd.

I think David should have someone take a shot at writing up our
plans for the browser in the OS and Brad/Tod Should figure out
how to get that distributed and do some kind of survey.


<hr />

Hello, Iâm__________of TRG, a nationwide market research
company. Weâre conducting a survey of software manufacturers,
and would like to speak with you briefly about your current
offerings, and where you see the industry going over the next
several years.

(if asked) The survey will take approximately 5 minutes.

(if needs reassurance) The purpose of the survey is to look at
trends in operating systems, including such issues as
integrating the browser with the OS.


1A. Is your firm in the business of developing computer software
or customized software applications?

1. Yes

1B. Are your software products

1. custom appiicacions for specific companies or clients
(Type A -Custom)
2. designed for the general computer marketplace (shrink wrapped
software)   (Type B- General)

1C. Does your firm develop software for.

.....................................YES...NO...DK [TERM. IF

1D How long has your company been involved in the software
industry? ___ Years

2A. Which operating system did this companyâs first program run
under: (Check one)

1. DOS
3. OS/2
8. OTHER (SPECIFY) ____________

2B Which operating systems do your progrems currently run under:
(Check all appliable)

DOS                   YES    NO    DK
MACINTOSH             YES    NO    DK
OS/2                  YES    NO    DK
WINDOWS 3.X           YES    NO    DK
WINDOWS95             YES    NO    DK
WINDOWS NT            YES    NO    DK
UNIX                  YES    NO    DK

2C Are you currently developing or planning to develop software
for any of the following operating systems (only asked for those
not mentioned in 2B)

DOS                            YES        NO        DK
MACINTOSH                      YES        NO        DK
OS/2                           YES        NO        DK
WINDOWS 3.X                    YES        NO        DK
WINDOWS95                      YES        NO        DK
WINDOWS NT                     YES        NO        DK

Windows Browser Integration Survey - V3     TRO      Feb 1998
Page 1

MS9S 0122150

<hr />

UNIX                           YES        NO        DK

Windows Browser Integration Survey - V3   Feb 1998   Page 2

<hr />

2D  What types of software products does your company develop
(Do not read List. confirm choices)


CAD                            MANUFACTURING/PROCESS CONTROL








GRAPHICS                       WORD PROCESSING

LANGUAGES                      OTHER:(SPECIFY)_______

3. How would you characterize your businessâ current sales? Are

1. Declining
2. Holding Steady
3. Increasing moderately, or
4  Increasing significantly


4A. What percent at your sates in 1997 came from Windows related

4B. What percent ofsales this year do you expect to come from
Windows related products?_____%

4C. And how about next year? (What percent of sales next year do
you expect to come from Windows related products?)____%

5.  Overall, what impact has Windows had on your business? Has
the impact been:

1. Very positive
2. Somewhat positive
3. Somewhat negative, or
4. Very negative
5. None (donât read, check if respondent volunteers)
9. Refused/NA

6. And what about the emergence of the Internet and Intranets?
Overall, what impact has Internet and intranet technology had on
your business? Has the impact been:

1. Very positive
2. Somewhat positive
3. Somewhat negative,or
4. Very negative
5. None (donât read, check if respondent volunteers)
9. Refused/NA

Windows Browser Integration Survey - V3   TRG   Feb 1998   Page

MS98 0122152

<hr />

I'd like to get your reactions to one issue in the computer
industry today, which is the integration of browser technologies
into the Operating System. Weâd like to review the rationale
given by Microsoft for integrating browser technology into the
Operating System, and get your reactions to it.

One of the reasons Microsoft cites for integrating browsing
technology into the OS is the benefits to Independent software
vendors from having a larger standard set of system services
included in the OS. just as when other network protocols such as
TCPIP (read âT-C-P-I-Pâ) were integrated into Windows.

In the case of integrated browser technologies. ISVâs could
develop applications knowing there was one standard set of user
services that was on their machine. ISVâs would not have to
worry about whether a browser was present, or about
inconsistency in userâs installed software. For example, ISVâs
can ship help flies as standard HTML (read âH-T-M-Lâ) files,
knowing browser technology is there in the OS, thus eliminating
the need for proprietary help formats and tools. This
integration allows ISVâs to use standard protocols in their
applications including HTML, FTP (âF-T-P") and Gopher to
retrieve data from the Internet or other sources. Other new
built in services would resolve URL addresses that are passed
into an application or give you the ability to retrieve URLâs
and bring the data into your application. These are just some of
the examples of the new standard services added with browser
integration. (PAUSE)

Overall, how beneficial would having these capabilities be to
your business as a software company? Would the
impact be:

1. Very positive
2. Somewhat positive
3. Somewhat negative, or
4. Very negative                                        -

8. What impact do you feel these new capabilities will have on
the independent software vendor community as a whole in their
charts to develop new applications? Do you feel the impact will

1. Very positive
2. Somewhat positive
3. Somewhat negative, or
4. Very negative

9 Do you feel that having these capabilities will make it any
easier for you as a software company to develop new applications
and bring new capabilities to your customers? Would you

1. Strongly Agree
2. Somewhat agree
3. Somewhat disagree, or
4. Strongly disagree that having these capabilities will make it
easier for you as a software company

10  Do you feel that integrating browser technologies into
Windows is a natural extension of the operating system,
similar to previous additions such as adding TCPIP and other
networking protocols?

1. Yes
2. No

11. Finally, how do you think this Will impact end users. What
impact, if any, would integrating browser and HTML technology
into the operating system have on end users and the applications
they can work with? Would the impact be

1. Very positive for end users
2. Somewhat positive
3. Somewhat negative, or
4. Very negative for end users

Windows Browser integration Survey - V3-DRAFT    TRG    Feb 1998
Page 4


<hr />

Two demographic items for classification purposes

12. Approximately how many people are employed by your company
at all company locations worldwide? Donât know/No answer

13. And approximately what is your total annual software sales
volume? $ _________

14. Respondent Name: ________________________ Verify Direct
Phone Number___-___-____

15. Record gender  1. Male   2.Female                         .

Thank you very much for sharing your opinions with us. Have a
nice morning/afternoon.

Windows Browser Integration Survey - V3-DRAFT  Feb 1998   Page 5

Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux)


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