Okay, there has been hardly a single message in the IRC channel in the
past week and other than ChanServ nobody is there. It seems safe to
assume that this won't change, so in line with promises to keep it
public, here is the log which is almost complete (it doesn't seem like
anyone has posted it yet).
**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jun 22 13:16:44 2008
Jun 22 13:16:44 * Now talking on #oiic
Jun 22 13:16:44 * Topic for #oiic is: ODF Implementation,
Interoperability and Conformance
Jun 22 13:16:44 * Topic for #oiic set by jmarsden at Sat Jun 21 04:15:49
2008
Jun 22 13:16:44 * #oiic :[freenode-info] if you need to send private
messages, please register: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg
Jun 22 14:13:35 * oiaohm has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.82.1 [Firefox
3.0/2008052906]")
Jun 22 14:25:58 * bbaston
(n=bbaston@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #oiic
Jun 22 15:07:15 <dpawson> Does anyone else believe that we'll get better
interop and testability by staying within the current standard and
proposing improvements?
Jun 22 15:07:21 * memunkey
(n=w0nderd0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #oiic
Jun 22 15:07:26 <memunkey> morning all
Jun 22 15:07:44 <dpawson> memunkey, Morning|afternoon|... whatever !
Jun 22 15:08:17 * memunkey is Garry Hurley from the email list (I rarely
use my real name in IRC programs to protect the guilty)
Jun 22 15:08:33 <dpawson> <grin/> Definately guilty
Jun 22 15:08:54 <tyche> Morning, dpawson and memunkey
Jun 22 15:09:32 <dpawson> Afternoon tyche.
Jun 22 15:10:57 <dpawson> tyche, Is that as per tyke, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyke? Not heard of tyche before.
Jun 22 15:11:18 <tyche> dpawson: to answer your question of about 3
minutes ago, it isn't the place of the OIIC-TC to try to change the
standard. Anything like that would be out of Scope.
Jun 22 15:12:16 <tyche> dpawson: see https://launchpad.net/~tyche for
why I took the name. Check wikipedia for where the name originally came
from. But check my site FIRST to see WHY I took it.
Jun 22 15:12:33 <dpawson> tyche, How to tell Paul that?
Jun 22 15:12:48 <dpawson> (note, it isn't in OED :-)
Jun 22 15:13:00 <tyche> Sorry, I don't mean to sound short. I'm just
doing 2 things at once. Chatting, and getting material together for a
Newsletter.
Jun 22 15:13:47 <dpawson> Oh, how mundane! your cat. Just that as a
Yorkshireman, I was a tyke for long enough.
Jun 22 15:13:48 <tyche> In short, Tyche was a cat - female Siamese Seal
Point that used to jump up on my lap to see what I was doing on the
computer.
Jun 22 15:13:58 <tyche> The name comes from the name of a Greek Muse
Jun 22 15:14:01 <dpawson> Yes, been there, done that.
Jun 22 15:14:38 <dpawson> Oh! In which case, wonder why it isn't in the OED?
Jun 22 15:14:55 <tyche> Yes, and in America, Tyke was the name of a dog
that lived in a shoe with Buster Brown. Hee hee
Jun 22 15:15:22 <dpawson> Goddess of luck.
Jun 22 15:15:25 <dpawson> Figures :-)
Jun 22 15:15:44 <dpawson> Buster Brown? Not Charlie?
Jun 22 15:15:59 <memunkey> yeah, I had a goldfish named Tyche once. It
died. Just my luck
Jun 22 15:16:00 <tyche> The first ISP I had asked me for a user name,
and the only thing I could think of was that cat.
Jun 22 15:16:16 <dpawson> tyche, Way it goes.
Jun 22 15:16:32 <dpawson> How to keep Paul happy without moderation on
the list?
Jun 22 15:16:34 <tyche> Buster Brown shoes were a trade name in America.
The image of Buster Brown and his dog were on the inside insole of the
shoes.
Jun 22 15:16:40 * watersevenub (n=watersev@unaffiliated/watersevenub)
has joined #oiic
Jun 22 15:16:42 <memunkey> dpawson, Charlie Brown's dog was Snoopy
Jun 22 15:17:07 <dpawson> Sorry. I'm woefully behind on US kids TV.
Jun 22 15:17:15 <tyche> dpawson: I see no reason to "keep Paul happy".
I see MORE reason to keep the discussion focused.
Jun 22 15:17:44 <tyche> dpawson: It's worse than you think, Buster Brown
shoes were probably WAY before you were born.
Jun 22 15:18:02 <memunkey> dpawson, keep Paul happy without moderation
on the list? I have twnety bucks I can throw in. If we get enough,
maybe we can rent him a bikini-clad keyboard polisher.
Jun 22 15:18:08 <dpawson> tyche, Ya go way <sob/>
Jun 22 15:18:38 <memunkey> anyhow, enough joing.
Jun 22 15:18:42 <memunkey> joking
Jun 22 15:19:02 <tyche> memunkey: there's NEVER such a thing as enough
joking. Hee hee
Jun 22 15:19:09 <memunkey> note to self, use IRC client with spell-checker
Jun 22 15:19:10 <dpawson> :-)
Jun 22 15:19:39 <dpawson> memunkey, Nope. Can't be done. Just learn how
to self correct as and when needed. (LIke the rest of us)
Jun 22 15:20:44 <tyche> Actually, this client I'm using is capable of
having a spell checker. I said "capable of", because I'm running
Konversation - a KDE app in Gnome, where the spell checker doesn't work
for it.
Jun 22 15:20:50 <memunkey> dpawson, yeah, I've been using IRC since the
early 90's (and QuantumLink for my Commodore computers, then AOL chat
before that) and I have yet to see any spell-checking clients.
Jun 22 15:21:34 <dpawson> Not the spell checker memunkey , it's the
person behind the keyboard sadly. A common malady.
Jun 22 15:21:43 <tyche> So you're apt to see some "interesting"
spellings out of me, from time to time. Couple that with the fact that
I touch-type 40 mistakes a minute, with words.
Jun 22 15:21:53 <memunkey> yeah, the old PEBKAC errors.
Jun 22 15:22:24 <dpawson> Back to my perl. I'm playing with the list
archives. I was told they will be wiped as and when this group finishes.
Jun 22 15:22:25 <memunkey> PEBKAC = Problem Exists Between Keyboard And
Chair
Jun 22 15:22:44 <dpawson> memunkey, Figures. Common... but true.
Jun 22 15:23:12 <tyche> In professional driving, it's called "the nut
behind the wheel" Hee hee
Jun 22 15:23:50 <memunkey> anyways, what is the general focus of today's
chat, besides Paul-bashing?
Jun 22 15:24:33 <tyche> I won't bash Paul. Actually, I won't do
ANYTHING with him. For me, he doesn't exist. Call it "self-moderating".
Jun 22 15:28:03 <dpawson> Sticking within the current standard.
Jun 22 15:28:34 <dpawson> I'm concerned with Sanders proposal. Like the
idea, but not when he/she wonders off into suggestion application
actions outside the spec.
Jun 22 15:29:05 <tyche> So, we make use of the stuff that's IN spec, and
ignore the rest.
Jun 22 15:29:40 <tyche> I don't care where good ideas come from, but the
group does need to focus, somewhat.
Jun 22 15:33:15 <dpawson> Partly because I see Pauls ideas as main TC
focussed, I guess I'm reluctant to go outside the standard since we've
no foundation then.
Jun 22 15:33:59 <dpawson> Whilst I wholly agree the standard is slack as
... anything in places, I think we need a full testability review before
we can criticise it with good reason.
Jun 22 15:34:03 <tyche> Yep
Jun 22 15:37:11 <tyche> watersevenub: We're not REALLY ignoring you.
Welcome aboard.
Jun 22 15:37:22 <tyche> Sorry, I've been tied up doing 2 things at once.
Jun 22 15:37:49 <watersevenub> tyche, eheh :)
Jun 22 15:38:09 <watersevenub> tyche, Just interested on how this
subject goes ;)
Jun 22 15:38:22 <watersevenub> tyche, the interop issue .
Jun 22 15:38:38 <tyche> Yep. We all are.
Jun 22 15:39:23 <tyche> But at the same time, I'm trying to do stuff for
the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter. You might say it's my "other job", except
that I'm retired and don't HAVE a job. Hee hee
Jun 22 15:39:43 <tyche> Only 30 more URL's to pull for this week. LOL
Jun 22 15:40:00 <watersevenub> tyche, retired as in... age goodness? :)
Jun 22 15:40:24 <watersevenub> tyche, nice :)
Jun 22 15:40:51 <tyche> Retired as in I hit 62 at about the same time as
a co-worker tried to assault me in my own office, and I figered it
wasn't worth staying with that job.
Jun 22 15:41:21 <tyche> And there's not much call for draftsmen out
here, so I had no other prospects for a job.
Jun 22 15:41:57 <watersevenub> yaicks :)
Jun 22 15:42:46 <tyche> Besides, when one's wife (who makes 3 times what
one makes) tells one to retire, then it's time to retire.
Jun 22 15:42:58 <tyche> Never argue with SWMBO
Jun 22 15:43:38 <watersevenub> tyche, (oh well.. maybe in a few weeks we
will have the new beta.ubuntu-pt.org for you to include in the UWN )
Meanwhile,
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=SPEECH/08/317&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en
Jun 22 15:43:49 <watersevenub> oops
Jun 22 15:43:55 <watersevenub> tyche, you bet!:)
Jun 22 15:44:15 <watersevenub> tyche, that is a suggestion for UWN .
Jun 22 15:44:26 <watersevenub> should have gone in pvt .
Jun 22 15:44:49 <tyche> Don't worry about it. I'll have to check it
out, later.
Jun 22 15:45:05 <tyche> brb
Jun 22 15:49:31 <tyche> Back
Jun 22 15:49:45 <tyche> Important nessary accessory - Coffee
Jun 22 16:16:01 <tyche> watersevenub: Interesting quotation in that
speach of Neelie Kroes, "I fail to see the interest of customers in
including proprietary technology in standards when there are no clear
and demonstrable benefits over non-proprietary alternatives." And
another one, "Allowing companies to sit around a table and agree
technical developments for their industry is not something that the
competition rules would usually allow. So when it is allowed we have to look
Jun 22 16:16:01 <tyche> carefully at how it is done."
Jun 22 16:16:38 <tyche> I've seen some limited discussion of Neelie
Kroes' speach before.
Jun 22 16:18:21 <watersevenub> tcyhe, It is an informed speech. Not
perfect, but still interesting.
Jun 22 16:19:24 <watersevenub> tyche, see for example the discussion in
groklaw http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=2008061009003111
Jun 22 16:19:47 <tyche> Yep. I have. Groklaw is my "home" page.
Jun 22 16:20:32 <watersevenub> :)
Jun 22 16:21:31 <tyche> I registered with Groklaw shortly after PJ took
it over to ibiblio. That was about the time the TSCOG fiaSCO started.
Jun 22 16:24:15 <watersevenub> tyche, Probably this isn't the right
place to put such a question. But I will take the chance to ask you...
Is this the best that we can do nowadays:
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/office/How_to_Validate_an_ODF_document ?
These guys go a little bit further:
http://opendocumentfellowship.com/validator but still there is no
standard tool, right? I'm following the subject only recently ...
Jun 22 16:24:16 <tyche> However, as good as Neelie Kroes' speach is, it
really has only peripheral impact on this TC charter.
Jun 22 16:24:30 <watersevenub> tyche, yape .
Jun 22 16:26:29 <tyche> The purpose of this discussion group, both the
mailing list and this IRC channel, is to help come up with the tools for
application venders to use to enable them to be in conformance with the
Open Document Format.
Jun 22 16:27:35 <tyche> It is not the purpose of this group to attempt
to change the standard or the format to conform to some outside,
proprietary vender.
Jun 22 16:29:50 <tyche> The idea of "two way interoperability" is
insidious. The implications, without definition, could imply that its
purpose is to interoperate with venders, rather than that venders need
to be able to conform to ODF, and therefore be interoperable with eachother.
Jun 22 16:30:55 <tyche> Efforts have been made, in the mailing list, to
"hijack" the purpose of the TC charter to change ODF. I feel that is wrong.
Jun 22 16:34:06 * jmarsden_
(n=jonathan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #oiic
Jun 22 16:34:37 <tyche> To my mind, it is as wrong as trying to say
that Linux should conform to Microsoft Vista, in order to be
interoperable. Such thinking is either nonsense, or trolling on the
part of individuals who would attempt to control the market on behalf of
a proprietary vender.
Jun 22 16:34:39 <watersevenub> tyche, I totally agree with you.
Jun 22 16:35:14 <tyche> Sorry. I think I've got a nerve exposed there.
Hee hee
Jun 22 16:35:54 <watersevenub> tyche, we all have reasons for that. It
has been seen such a nonsense everywhere since OOXML was submitted....
Jun 22 16:36:03 <tyche> The english language is very slippery, as both
lawyers and philosophers understand.
Jun 22 16:36:11 <tyche> Yep
Jun 22 16:37:15 <tyche> If you're familiar with Groklaw (and you appear
to be) then you know just how insidious trolls can be. And Groklaw is
one of the reasons that I'm so against them.
Jun 22 16:37:33 <tyche> I've seen some awful stuff spouted there.
Jun 22 16:38:34 <tyche> PJ has shown that the "many eyes" principle
holds for more than just software.
Jun 22 16:38:57 <bbaston> tyche: mornin. PJ says ignore trolls - not
engage. which you've done lately over on the Discussion.
Jun 22 16:39:38 <bbaston> err - that reads wrong. You've avoided
engaging the troll.
Jun 22 16:41:16 <watersevenub> tyche, trolls... They still leave me
astonished... I have found one or two that must be paid otherwise they
couldn't be replying in blogs all day:)
Jun 22 16:41:21 <tyche> Actually, I did engage, briefly. I took a
particular post and applied my "vote" to the elements in it. It
resulted in such a diatribe that I again responded with the truth about
myself (being very careful to NOT say anything actionable about the
source of the statements against me). And that ended it.
Jun 22 16:41:56 <tyche> Part of the reason I did so was to clear up who
I was, and to expose the individual to my personal scorn for his tactics.
Jun 22 16:42:29 <bbaston> tyche: masterfully done, too
Jun 22 16:42:36 <tyche> BTW bbaston, thanks for the reference in Groklaw
concerning my brief guide to IRC. :-D
Jun 22 16:42:45 <tyche> Thank you, sir.
Jun 22 16:42:45 <bbaston> ;)
Jun 22 16:43:50 <watersevenub> Anyway... Sunday afternoon. Time to rest.
If the path diverges from your thoughts (tyche) then I see ODF in
danger, and our time as well :)
Jun 22 16:44:42 * watersevenub has quit ("Leaving")
Jun 22 16:45:40 <bbaston> Marbux just posted "I really object strongly
to an IRC chat for this effort"
Jun 22 16:45:51 <tyche> He would.
Jun 22 16:46:27 <tyche> OH, GAD!!! I'm slacking off. 20 posts to the
list, that I haven't gotten to, yet, this morning. Hee hee
Jun 22 16:47:07 <tyche> marbux needn't bother joining the IRC chat. The
results will show up in the formal mailing list.
Jun 22 16:50:56 * jmarsden has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
Jun 22 16:51:21 <sunny> being that Marbux does not approve of this
channel suggests this channel will do wonders, heh
Jun 22 16:51:50 <tyche> An interesting observation. Hee hee
Jun 22 17:00:41 <tyche> jmarsden_: ping
Jun 22 17:34:30 <memunkey> do you think Marbux just doesn't know how to
use IRC?
Jun 22 17:36:41 <memunkey> on the face of it, I see a reasonable
objection for having an IRC channel as excluding those on the list from
the discussion (I am unable to access IRC from work, too) but for small
sideline conversations, IRC is just too damned useful.
Jun 22 17:36:57 <tyche> memunkey: To comment on that, I'd have to make
some remark about the individual. And I won't do that for 2 reasons.
One, as far as I'm concerned he doesn't exist. Two, to do so could be
interpreted as making derogatory remarks about an individual, and I
won't stoop to such tactics.
Jun 22 17:37:50 <tyche> I'd be more than willing to do a "log dump" back
to the email list. But I'd want to get approval from such as Rob Weir
before I did.
Jun 22 17:38:06 <memunkey> To that end, can I suggest some intelligent
rules for the channel? Like maybe posting a schedule for weekend
discussions?
Jun 22 17:38:23 <tyche> Of course, then, there are people who would
claim that the logs were tampered with.
Jun 22 17:38:46 <memunkey> that enables those of us who can't use IRC
from work to be involved.
Jun 22 17:39:38 <tyche> I think there's a lot of times when discussions
will go on in IRC that are unplanned, and limited to only a few
individuals trying to get their heads around a definition. Such as went
on yesterday.
Jun 22 17:40:03 <tyche> Also, as far as I know, there are NO
representatives of venders in channel at this time.
Jun 22 17:40:40 <memunkey> true, but for other topics, if there is a
large question about them in the list, maybe the IRC channel and a
scheduled chat would help
Jun 22 17:41:35 <memunkey> marbux could lecture us on the finer points
of law (while we all set up our 'yesbots' to tell him how great he is)...
Jun 22 17:41:48 <tyche> Oh, I have no problem with THAT. Just saying
that the use so far doesn't appear to be in that direction. I'd
DEFINITELY encourage posting a meeting date/time. Such is done in
Ubuntu for meetings, too.
Jun 22 17:43:04 <memunkey> tyche, and #slamd64, #java, #perl,
##slackware and #pctacm - just some of the other channels I appear in.
Jun 22 17:43:27 <tyche> :-D Buisy person, aren't you? Hee hee
Jun 22 17:43:38 <memunkey> well, I did leave out #kde
Jun 22 17:43:59 <tyche> Are you trying to show me up? Hee hee
Jun 22 17:44:06 <memunkey> not at all.
Jun 22 17:44:30 <tyche> I had to WORK for my membership. Hee hee
Jun 22 17:44:36 <memunkey> actually, I am lurking in most of those channels.
Jun 22 17:45:20 <memunkey> I am doing laundry, cooking something for
lunch, and debating on going to the gym.
Jun 22 17:45:25 <bbaston> memunkey: suggestion on chat logs back to list
Jun 22 17:46:41 <memunkey> bbaston, I am for posting scheduled chats and
some impromptu chats to the list. However, the personal comments from
time to time should definitely be kept off the list.
Jun 22 17:47:27 <bbaston> exactly. pertinent comment editing, though, is
expensive and subject to "critics"
Jun 22 17:47:29 <dpawson> TimeZones would really mess with that memunkey
Jun 22 17:48:20 <dpawson> I think the active list members have at least
9 hours variation?
Jun 22 17:48:54 <tyche> Personally, I'm of the opinion that if someone
feels that "inappropriate behavior" may be taking place on the IRC, then
they are welcome to see for themselves. Also, since what's said in IRC
is, effectively, public, there shouldn't be any deletions from logs sent
to the email list.
Jun 22 17:49:31 <dpawson> I asked jmarsden_ if he could set up a bot to
log for us. No reply though
Jun 22 17:49:48 <tyche> dpawson: The timezone problem has been somewhat
overcome in Ubuntu, and we could take a tip from them.
Jun 22 17:49:57 <bbaston> so how about a sign-in message "comments
logged and posted over at OIIC discussion"
Jun 22 17:50:32 <dpawson> tyche, yes, but who likes chatting at 2300/0500!
Jun 22 17:50:46 <dpawson> bbaston, yes. http://inamidst.com/phenny is
the best bot I've seen.
Jun 22 17:53:11 <bbaston> jmarsden, such a msg should say nothing of how
implemented - which you should control or delegate as you wish - as
owner of this meeting place
Jun 22 17:54:25 <tyche> Both jmarsden and I have logs turned on. It
would be easy to copy and past logs into an email.
Jun 22 17:55:25 <bbaston> as do i when here - but that's end of my
suggestion stream
Jun 22 17:59:40 <bbaston> except - there will be no satisfying all no
matter what's done - from nothing on thru 100% logging - so it's really
another distraction
Jun 22 18:00:01 <tyche> NOW you get it. LOL
Jun 22 18:44:32 <memunkey> dpawson, ummm... me?
Jun 22 18:45:03 <dpawson> memunkey, ??
Jun 22 18:45:19 <memunkey> dpawson> tyche, yes, but who likes chatting
at 2300/0500!
Jun 22 18:45:36 <memunkey> like I said, me
Jun 22 18:45:59 <dpawson> Exactly. I attend one with Japan, W coast
states, Eu and the W coast is 7 a.m. and Japan near midnight
Jun 22 18:46:16 <dpawson> Oh. You *like* chatting late?
Jun 22 18:46:43 <memunkey> dpawson, why not? No wife/girlfriend/social life
Jun 22 18:47:19 <dpawson> <sliding/> So when you get the 7 a.m. slot?
Jun 22 18:47:58 <dpawson> What's that saying? Please some of the people
all of the
Jun 22 18:48:00 <memunkey> well, at 7 am on weekdays I am too busy
rushing around to get to work by 8 am
Jun 22 18:48:23 <dpawson> Generally it's hard to please even a majority.
Jun 22 18:49:59 <memunkey> well, correct me if I am wrong, but if I
logged in at 4:30 AM EDT, I would be logged in at around 9:30 AM in the
UK, right?
Jun 22 18:51:04 <dpawson> Yep... which would be ... v.late or v.early
for W coast? Possibly quite unseemly in .jp too!
Jun 22 18:52:26 <memunkey> well, three hours difference between east and
west, so about 1:30AM in California, 11:30 PM in Hawaii
Jun 22 18:52:46 <memunkey> 9:30PM or so in Japan
Jun 22 18:53:23 <memunkey> assuming 2 hours time difference between
Hawaii and Japan.
Jun 22 19:08:44 <dpawson> memunkey, so basically spread out. It creates
quite a lot of feeling I can assure you.
Jun 22 19:08:49 * dpawson (n=dpawson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has left
#oiic ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with
this line and help me take over the world of IRC.")
Jun 22 20:13:28 <schestowitz> I know this may be frowned upon, but one
channel that occasionally discusses document standards is also
#boycottnovell , in case someone ever wishes to join in.
Jun 22 20:17:34 <bbaston> schestowitz, is it 8:24 pm where you r?
Jun 22 20:18:25 <schestowitz> Yes, indeed.
Jun 22 20:18:57 <bbaston> 2:25 pm here in arkansas usa, home town of
that clinton guy
Jun 22 20:19:41 <schestowitz> He's alright, compared to that 'current
guy' :-)
Jun 22 20:20:06 <bbaston> heh - no argument here! a question for u
Jun 22 20:21:26 <bbaston> what time would be good choice for 2-hr
"meeting" of OASIS participants on this chat? unofficial poll.
Jun 22 20:21:45 <schestowitz> To keep this on topic, I'll assert that I
hold the administration accountable, at least in part, for what is not
perceived as imperialism using lock-in. To a degree, ODF is a necessary
prerequisite to escaping it. (technical arguments aside)
Jun 22 20:22:11 <bbaston> heh!
Jun 22 21:00:29 <schestowitz> Well, I'll be on this channel permanently,
so..
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Jun 23 05:34:50 <jmarsden> @list
Jun 23 05:34:50 <oiicLogBot> jmarsden: Admin, Channel, Config, Misc,
Owner, and User
Jun 23 05:35:04 <jmarsden> @help Channel
Jun 23 05:35:05 <oiicLogBot> jmarsden: (channel [<channel>] <name>
[<value>]) -- If <value> is given, sets the channel configuration
variable for <name> to <value> for <channel>. Otherwise, returns the
current channel configuration value of <name>. <channel> is only
necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
Jun 23 05:39:44 <tyche> jmarsden: Congratulations. You got the logbot
installed.
Jun 23 05:40:12 <jmarsden> Yep. Not configured yet, but it's up and
running, which is a good start :-)
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Jun 23 06:05:44 <sgrover> hehe... hello oiicLogBot !!!
Jun 23 06:06:39 <jmarsden> Try something more like oiicLogBot: help
Jun 23 06:07:39 <jmarsden> oiicLogBot: help
Jun 23 06:07:39 <oiicLogBot> jmarsden: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) --
This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin>
is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.
Jun 23 06:09:17 <sgrover> that would assume I'm more familiar with irc
and bots though.. :)
Jun 23 06:09:24 <sgrover> oiicLogBot: hello
Jun 23 06:09:24 <oiicLogBot> sgrover: Error: "hello" is not a valid command.
Jun 23 06:09:37 * sgrover chuckles
Jun 23 06:10:19 <jmarsden> It's mostly just for logging of course, but
I'm using a fairly general purpose bot framework so we'll get some other
plugins set up too.
Jun 23 06:11:09 <jmarsden> for example, we have an online dictionary...
Jun 23 06:11:22 <jmarsden> @dict html
Jun 23 06:11:24 <oiicLogBot> jmarsden: wn, foldoc, and vera responded:
foldoc: HTML {Hypertext Markup Language}; vera: HTML HyperText Markup
Language (Internet, WWW, SGML, RFC 1866/1942, HTML); wn: HTML n : a set
of tags and rules (conforming to SGML) for using them in developing
hypertext documents [syn: {hypertext markup language}, {hypertext
mark-up language}]; foldoc: HTML+ <hypertext, standard> A proposed (1
more message)
Jun 23 06:26:16 <jmarsden> @more
Jun 23 06:26:17 <oiicLogBot> jmarsden: found. to just the URL. <channel>
is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
Jun 23 06:26:39 <jmarsden> more
Jun 23 06:26:42 <jmarsden> @more
Jun 23 06:26:42 <oiicLogBot> jmarsden: Error: That's all, there is no more.
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Jun 23 07:35:19 <jmarsden> @uptime
Jun 23 07:35:19 <oiicLogBot> jmarsden: I have been running for 41
minutes and 40 seconds.
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Jun 23 08:23:49 <jmarsden> Hi dpawson I just posted about an archive
creator script you might want to try out
Jun 23 08:24:11 <jmarsden>
http://jmarsden.org/oiic/oiic-archive-converter.pl
Jun 23 09:32:26 <schestowitz> <jmarsden>, do you want me to run another
logger just in case yours has a downtime? I have one running already, so
it's no hassle.
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Jun 23 15:14:21 <dpawson> From Rob. Quote. This TC Process addition was
added after ODF 1.0 and ODF 1.1 were approved. ODF 1.2 will be enhanced
to conform to this new requirement. Any discussion of ODF conformance
properly belongs on that discussion list, not here. End quote
Jun 23 15:15:23 <schestowitz> Ta for the update
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Jun 23 15:34:06 <tyche> I was wondering about that when he mentioned it
in the list. I'm no expert, but I thought it would take over that part.
So the OIIC-TC can just reference that TC for information on conformance.
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Jun 23 18:01:53 <schestowitz>
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office/200806/msg00077.html
Jun 23 18:01:54 <schestowitz>
http://blogs.sun.com/dancer/entry/microsoft_invites_to_odf_workshop
Jun 23 18:02:16 <schestowitz> Microsoft is suddenly inviting all people
behindODF to 'pull a Patrick D'
Jun 23 18:02:29 <schestowitz> Reason:
http://lodahl.blogspot.com/2008/06/danish-industry-is-looking-for.html
Jun 23 18:02:48 <schestowitz> Erwin's last post (he's leaving): "Maybe
this invitation has something to do with Microsoft's public "ODF has
clearly won" statement at a recent event."
Jun 23 18:02:58 <schestowitz> Microsoft is trying to grab ODF control
Jun 23 18:03:23 <schestowitz> Just as it does with Open Source. Reject
the invitation just as Charles did.
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Jun 23 18:08:37 <tyche> I wonder if this could be classed as "Beware of
Geeks bearing gifts".
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Jun 23 22:02:52 <watersevenub> hi.
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Jun 24 00:16:26 <bbaston> tyche or jmarsden_: I see full logging is
implemented (logger_bot and oiicLogBot). what are constraints (if any)
on participants, i.e. should all chatting first register for the
official discussion or not?
Jun 24 00:17:17 <tyche> bbaston: I'm not the one to ask. I'm just a
visitor here, just like you.
Jun 24 00:18:01 <bbaston> gotcha. would like to know re: notice i posted
elsewhere.
Jun 24 00:18:25 <tyche> Basically, I saw this channel as being an aside,
where people could work out what's happening and what it means in "real
time", compared to the lag and overwhelming amount in the email list.
Jun 24 00:18:46 <tyche> jmarsden would be the best person to ask.
Jun 24 00:19:21 <tyche> However, regestering on the mailinglist isn't
painful. No worse than subscribing to a Team mailinglist.
Jun 24 00:19:54 <bbaston> consider him asked here. i'll stay on and read
messages when i return. using Firefox 3 & ChatZilla plugin btw. thanks
for response.
Jun 24 00:20:10 <tyche> NP
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Jun 24 06:25:14 <sgrover> jmarsden_: Hey ya. I have my log of the
conversation from the other day, did you want it sent to you? (pre-logger)
Jun 24 06:26:10 <schestowitz> Watch this:
http://technocrat.net/d/2008/6/23/44269
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Jun 24 10:23:03 <oiaohm> Hi all
Jun 24 10:24:15 <schestowitz> Hey, <oiaoh>
Jun 24 10:25:10 <oiaohm> This channel is fairly silent and the mailing
list is a mad house.
Jun 24 10:26:16 <schestowitz> Better a quiet home than a home with mad
people (or one *cough* person)
Jun 24 10:28:26 <oiaohm> Currently working out putting toegother a
formal desciption of render testing of odf applications.
Jun 24 10:28:51 <oiaohm> Not really liking 1.1 ODF not covering rounding
events well.
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Jun 25 10:23:36 <schestowitz>
http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=mozclient&num=50&u=http%3A//www.universidad.edu.uy/prensa/index.php%3Faction%3Dfullnews%26id%3D3375
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Jun 25 15:05:38 <schestowitz>
http://www.itwire.com/content/view/19001/1151/ "And while ODF support
has been promised for Office 2007 SP2, there's no sign of it for Office
2008."
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Jun 27 08:11:27 <schestowitz>
http://www.consortiuminfo.org/standardsblog/article.php?story=20080626092009868
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Jun 28 22:33:21 <bbaston> rob weir has posted question - turn on
moderation now?
Jun 28 22:33:42 <tyche> I've already responded. +1
Jun 28 22:39:20 <tyche> bbaston: Did you see where he was also vilifying PJ?
Jun 28 22:40:02 <tyche> He being Merrill.
Jun 28 22:41:09 <tyche> This stuff has to stop. the personal attacks,
the legal threats. None of it is necessary.
Jun 28 23:31:34 <bbaston> tyche - stepped out awhile. Yes, gentleman has
a dislike of PJ and Andy Updegrove too.
Jun 28 23:33:28 <bbaston> so I also posted my agreement with Weir that
moderation is sadly called for.
Jun 28 23:33:39 <tyche> I think part of his dislike of Andy Updegrove is
due to Andy's pointing out the fact that Merrill engaged in actionable
activity by calling me a liar. Naughty, naughty. I'm not sure whether
it would count as slander or libel. But either way, Merrill really
stepped in it.
Jun 28 23:33:46 <tyche> I saw that.
Jun 28 23:34:49 <bbaston> so i now hope the IOIIC Discussion can get
down to business.
Jun 28 23:35:14 <bbaston> OIIC - where'd that extra I come from...
Jun 28 23:35:16 <tyche> Of course, the fact that Andy is correct on the
other stuff he's talked about doesn't help Merrell's opinion, any.
Jun 28 23:35:33 <tyche> :-D Fingers work. Sometimes they work right.
Hee hee
Jun 28 23:46:27 <bbaston> IMHO marbux's attack on Thomas Zander was
intended to push himself into 'moderation'.
Jun 28 23:47:56 <tyche> That's one way of looking at it, but why would
he want to push himself into 'moderation'?
Jun 28 23:48:09 <tyche> I think it was more a case of trying to scare
Zander off.
Jun 28 23:48:26 <bbaston> his only route to disengagement. marbux is
overwhelmed.
Jun 28 23:49:08 <tyche> Maybe it was because my father was a Quaker, but
I learned a long time ago that "all you have to do is stop"
Jun 28 23:49:44 <bbaston> obviously a skill marbux doesn't possess.
Jun 28 23:49:56 <tyche> Yea.
Jun 28 23:50:19 <tyche> Or doesn't want to possess.
Jun 28 23:50:58 <tyche> Sorry, my tin-foil hat is getting a bit tight.
Jun 28 23:51:29 <bbaston> ;-D
Jun 28 23:51:53 <tyche> I'm beginning to see SCOism everywhere. Hee hee
Jun 28 23:52:33 <tyche> I STILL want to know who the REAL marbux is.
Jun 28 23:53:24 <tyche> I've seen 2 different names, and both of them
are attributed to having been a member of the Open Document Fellowship.
Jun 28 23:53:52 <tyche> I've heard of multiple personality disorder, but
usually it's contained in one physical envelope.
Jun 28 23:56:16 <bbaston> Yes, marbux is the name I use because HE used
marbux under both persona's
Jun 28 23:57:08 <tyche> If it's the same person. That's why I refer to
this one as Merrill
Jun 28 23:58:02 <tyche> Without proof that they're the same person, I
feel the need to differentiate.
Jun 28 23:58:21 <tyche> If they ARE the same person, then perhaps it's
HIS tin-foil hat that's too tight.
Jun 29 00:25:51 <sunny> I thought his name was Paul Martin ?
Jun 29 00:26:08 <sunny> where did Merrill come from ?
Jun 29 00:26:25 <tyche> That's ONE name, but not the one he's using on
the oiic list. IF it's the same person.
Jun 29 00:27:10 <sunny> have you compared mail headers between these
"two" people
Jun 29 00:27:25 <sunny> ?
Jun 29 00:27:31 <tyche> If you check the information on Open Document
Fellowship, marbux = Paul Martin. On the oiic list, Merrill claims to
have worked on the Fellowship.
Jun 29 00:27:54 <tyche> I don't have any email headers from the
Fellowship era. And it's now defunct.
Jun 29 00:28:00 <sunny> I don't see a merrill
Jun 29 00:28:09 <sunny> what time/date was this post ?
Jun 29 00:28:19 <tyche> Standby
Jun 29 00:29:01 <sunny> 10-4
Jun 29 00:31:07 <tyche> See "Profiles: suggested use-cases" from marbux
to Sander Marechal, dated 6-22-2008. His full name is at the bottom of
the email.
Jun 29 00:31:45 <tyche> "Paul E. Merrell, J.D. (Marbux)"
Jun 29 00:31:51 <sunny> I see it
Jun 29 00:32:17 <sunny> what state did he acquire his JD in ?
Jun 29 00:32:26 <sunny> maybe one could look up bar records
Jun 29 00:32:56 <tyche> I'm not sure. And considering my feelings right
now, I'm not sure I'd want to comment on the state he got his JD in.
Hee hee
Jun 29 00:33:40 <sunny> Oregon ?
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Jun 29 00:34:30 <tyche> I don't think I ever saw where he got it.
Jun 29 00:35:40 <sunny> googling for Pual marting suggests Oregon
Jun 29 00:36:40 <sunny> seems to be Merrell
Jun 29 00:36:41 <sunny>
http://www.osbar.org/members/display.asp?b=890916&s=1
Jun 29 00:36:48 <sunny> Status: Resigned
Jun 29 00:36:55 <tyche> Looking
Jun 29 00:37:44 <tyche> With a mailing address of Tucson, Arizona. OH,
GAD!!! You mean he's in the same state _I_ am?
Jun 29 00:37:58 <sunny> poor you man
Jun 29 00:37:59 <sunny> lulz :P
Jun 29 00:38:28 <sunny> Googling for Pual E. Merrell suggests this PEM
guy knows about document standards and such as well
Jun 29 00:38:30 <tyche> Paul Martin doesn't show up in the Oregon State bar.
Jun 29 00:38:33 <sunny> outside the scope of ODF
Jun 29 00:39:16 <sunny> there is also
Jun 29 00:39:18 <sunny>
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/poi-dev/200804.mbox/%3C142396750804122343n1c3c81d1w640cf4ed7883be7c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx%3E
Jun 29 00:41:33 <sunny> scroll to the bottom
Jun 29 00:41:35 <sunny> for the sig
Jun 29 00:42:15 <sunny> but its interesting how the last name Merrell
only comes up in the year of 2008
Jun 29 00:42:17 <sunny> never before
Jun 29 00:42:37 <sunny> I wonder what Oregon Bar has to say about
lawyers appending JD/Esq at the end of pen names
Jun 29 00:42:58 <tyche> Yep. I saw, and I agree that it's interesting
that it doesn't come up before.
Jun 29 01:02:45 <sunny> I can't find anything on the name issue
Jun 29 01:02:52 <tyche> This is all that I come up with on Martin:
http://www.linux.com/feature/121034
Jun 29 01:03:16 <tyche> And there, his name references the Groklaw ID.
No other information.
Jun 29 01:03:36 <tyche> And that ends in 2007.
Jun 29 01:04:15 <tyche> It does NOT list Merrill as being associated
with it.
Jun 29 01:09:44 <sunny> yeah
Jun 29 01:10:34 <tyche> I've tried a couple of different search methods,
and come up with nothing else.
Jun 29 01:10:52 <sunny> I think that PEM is the real name
Jun 29 01:10:54 <sunny>
http://www.wpuniverse.com/vb/search.php?s=cf35859f3bb59196a5ab2f174755ab16&action=showresults&searchid=564005&sortby=&sortorder=&pagenumber=4
Jun 29 01:11:06 <sunny> its a site dedicated to Word Perfect people
Jun 29 01:11:12 <sunny> lawyers *LOVE* WP
Jun 29 01:11:19 <sunny> its got PEM and is dated 2002
Jun 29 01:12:19 <sunny>
http://www.wpuniverse.com/vb/member.php?s=ccf3e56595f5173071d9980c71d9a889&action=getinfo&userid=1230
Jun 29 01:12:26 <sunny> his profile says he is from Oregon as well
Jun 29 01:13:36 <tyche> Yep. That's lining up. Then who was Martin,
and why does Merrill say he was involved in the Fellowship (or
Foundation, or whatever it was)?
Jun 29 01:13:38 <jmarsden> Guys... the logs of this IRC channel will be
posted to the list. Are you sure this is appropriate on-topic
oiic-formation-discuss material?
Jun 29 01:16:14 <sunny> I realize its not OT ... but it isn't negative
discussion either, it is just info digging on someone who has shown
himself to be disruptive at times
Jun 29 01:16:24 <sunny> err, it is OT, sorry
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Jun 29 08:13:19 <schestowitz> <jmarsden> , there's nothing here that
cannot be seen be seen by list subscribers. And that's just fair.
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Jun 29 14:13:34 <dpawson> schestowitz, I wonder if Paul has made people
think twice about posting to IRC!
Jun 29 14:25:23 <schestowitz> I really don't know; I've personally been
in touch with him for years, but he began disappointing big time about a
year ago. FWIW, I sent PJ a copy of these bits about vilification;
'marbux' needs to behave more respectfully. Those legal intimidation
thingies against Sun/IBM go a year back and some people are very pissed off.
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Jun 29 14:58:56 <bbaston> pdawson: marbux has made people think twice
about even participating. are you not aware of that?
Jun 29 15:08:10 <dpawson> bbaston, No I wasn't. Because of the legal stuff?
Jun 29 15:10:05 <bbaston> you were not. thanks for answering that query.
are you believing that your discussions and marbux's postings are on topic?
Jun 29 15:12:02 <dpawson> bbaston, I can only speak for myself, but yes.
Didn't you?
Jun 29 15:17:10 <bbaston> i can only hope that you refresh your idea of
what "on topic" means in the context of this formation discussion
Jun 29 15:18:23 <dpawson> Be more specific. which emails do you think I
have sent that are off topic?
Jun 29 15:24:22 <bbaston> i believe the problem is in defining what is
on topic. progressing in consensus seems the ultimate goal each should
adopt. something becomes off topic when the concept has not achieved
consensus, don't you think?
Jun 29 15:31:18 <dpawson> Our group has given goals. If we need to
explore topics to reach those goals I see that as on topic? I haven't
seen any consensus work yet
Jun 29 15:38:33 <bbaston> "on topic" can become "off topic" after
becoming a vetted concept that is not progressing toward consensus.
Jun 29 15:39:02 <dpawson> Can, as in when / if Oasis decide to filter.
Jun 29 15:40:35 <bbaston> self-filtering is possible amongst cooperating
individuals
Jun 29 15:41:58 <dpawson> bbaston, Agreed. Doesn't seem to be happening
on this list though
Jun 29 15:43:34 <bbaston> i remain hopeful of seeing *self* rather than
*imposed* on-topic discussion.
Jun 29 15:45:43 <bbaston> though filtering or monitoring - is now a
consensus
Jun 29 15:46:14 <dpawson> Seems like it. All a bit new to Oasis AFAIK,
Jun 29 16:32:43 <sunny> just so you guys know
Jun 29 16:32:57 <sunny> Marbux's ODF Foundation never actually closed up
shop:
Jun 29 16:33:01 <sunny>
http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C2776940
Jun 29 16:33:27 <sunny> the whole "we're closing, we're gonna support
CDF" thing was clearly a scam
Jun 29 17:12:15 <bbaston> sunny: correct URL is
http://kepler.ss.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C2776940
Jun 29 17:15:30 <bbaston> but is off topic and means nothing. my own
corporation continued to exist for years after i retired - and cost me
many $ to finally get authorities to unincorporate. please note jmarsden
has cautioned about off topic on this IRC, specifically marbux-related.
thanks
Jun 29 17:15:43 <bbaston> ....
Jun 29 17:19:44 <schestowitz> Would it be handy if I dumped some ODF
pointers here every now and then?
Jun 29 17:21:45 <dpawson> schestowitz, What sort of pointers?
Jun 29 17:23:14 <schestowitz> URLs to breaking news and the like.
Jun 29 17:23:32 <dpawson> Yes, why not. Not as if the channel is busy.
Jun 29 17:29:40 <schestowitz> :-)
Jun 29 18:14:16 <schestowitz> Just spotted:
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/12068_3753076_3 "
Stallman notes that "Microsoft corrupted many members of ISO in order to
win approval for its phony 'open' document format, OOXML."
Jun 29 18:27:08 <dpawson> http://pastebin.org/47010
Jun 29 18:27:22 <dpawson> xslt 2.0 stylesheet to create a 1.1 odf with
working toc.
Jun 29 18:27:32 <dpawson> clean the original up with tagsoup first.
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Jun 30 17:23:39 <tyche> Are we "a day late and a dollar short" in
setting up an OIIC-TC? See
http://tools.services.openoffice.org/odfvalidator/
Jun 30 18:01:13 <dpawson> tyche, I think that's the work that Thomas
referred to? Hence his comments about using short test docs etc?
Jun 30 18:02:17 <dpawson> But it is a Sun site, so not Oasis? I'm
guessing it is Open Office based, not ODF in general?
Jun 30 18:02:43 <tyche> It might be. I haven't run a document through
it yet, though I may in the future. For the record, I DO use
OpenOffice.org. But as a test of the validator's capabilities I may
also install AbiWord and KWord and see what happens.
Jun 30 18:03:23 <tyche> Obviously, I'm looking at this TC formation, and
ODF in general, from the standpoint of an end user, and not a programmer.
Jun 30 18:04:53 <tyche> According to what I have read, the validator was
created by a SUN team or individual, but NOT for OO.o. It was set up
against three specifications: The ODF 1.0 ISO standard, the ODF 1.1 and
what exists of the ODF 1.2 specifications.
Jun 30 18:13:52 <dpawson> Fair comment. I'd trust that like testing
ooxml on M$ test kit. I like independent testing.
Jun 30 18:14:14 <dpawson> I'm guessing it's just a validator using the
relax NG schema which is in the spec?
Jun 30 18:14:42 <tyche> I haven't had a chance to investigate that deeply.
Jun 30 18:15:03 <dpawson> I use 'jing' from James Clark. Seems pretty
robust.
Jun 30 18:16:07 <tyche> But it might serve as a point of reference in
how to build a test suite. I don't maintain that it's the only way to
do it. Certainly, there could be other validators out there. I just
happened to come across this one, today.
Jun 30 18:16:45 <tyche> Actually, it was in my RSS feed, due to my
looking for some other upcoming information from OO.o
Jun 30 18:16:47 <dpawson> add it to the 'wiki' pages for reference?
Jun 30 18:17:12 <tyche> Sounds reasonable to me, as long as it isn't
used as a "bible". :-)
Jun 30 18:17:54 <tyche> It might be something for you to suggest.
Especially since anything coming from me, right now, is apt to be
ignored or flamed. Hee hee
Jun 30 18:18:44 <dpawson> tyche, thick skin seems a necessary
pre-requisite for list work. Just hope the TC is calmer
Jun 30 18:18:58 <dpawson> Perhaps it just shows that compliance/interop
is important?
Jun 30 18:19:06 <dpawson> seen as, anyway
Jun 30 18:19:46 <tyche> I wouldn't know about the TC being calmer.
Especially since I'm a poor, retired senior citizen end user that can't
afford the dues to join OASIS.
Jun 30 18:21:09 <tyche> As for a thick skin - that's not at issue.
Flames have a tendency to bounce off of me. But when there is flaming
going on, and I want something accomplished, I also don't feel that it
has to be me that proposes it. That's also part of a "thick skin" for
the betterment of the whole.
Jun 30 18:21:19 <dpawson> Big ooooh for tyche :-)
Jun 30 18:21:41 <dpawson>
http://sites.google.com/a/odfiic.org/tc/Home/tc-charter/existing-technical-work
Jun 30 18:21:49 <dpawson> Added. Something to reference
Jun 30 18:22:20 <tyche> Compliance and interoperability are important.
I remember the mess during the browser wars. More so because I was a
webmaster at the time, and tried to build a site that the majority of
people would be able to access easily.
Jun 30 18:22:25 <schestowitz> *rubs eyes at the sight of a live chat.
Jun 30 18:22:27 <tyche> Looking . . .
Jun 30 18:22:57 <dpawson> Guess that kind of reason is why we 're seeing
this work as important.
Jun 30 18:23:26 <dpawson> My moan is.. was, Wordperfect to office 97,
staroffice to wordperfect.
Jun 30 18:23:36 <tyche> Well, it certainly is from my point of view.
Jun 30 18:24:11 <tyche> Yep. I've tangled with Office (any release up
to when I retired) to OO.o and back again.
Jun 30 18:24:24 <dpawson> tyche, can we have a whip round, get
schestowitz some coffee, he's nearly awake :-)
Jun 30 18:25:04 <dpawson> I gave up. Started using xml in emacs. If
someone wanted posh I transformed to pdf/braille/html.
Jun 30 18:25:12 <tyche> Hee hee. He wouldn't like the coffee I make up
(or that my wife makes up, either). I was a truck driver. My wife was
a truck driver's daughter. The coffee we make disolves spoons.
Jun 30 18:25:30 <dpawson> Love the definition!
Jun 30 18:26:20 * schestowitz falls asleep
Jun 30 18:26:42 <dpawson> tyche, Wow. That was a long day.
Jun 30 18:26:42 <tyche> I could never get my head around emacs.
However, I've successfully "saved" Word documents from an ignomineous
death by crash by simply loading them into OO.o, then saving them back out.
Jun 30 18:27:37 <tyche> 4 minutes from wake up to fall asleep? I think
that even beats some of my records. Hee hee
Jun 30 18:27:42 <dpawson> First thing in the morning till last thing at
night. I always have it open. It hurt till I bought the O'Reilly emacs
book. Then got easier.
Jun 30 18:28:32 <dpawson> perhaps schestowitz is a truckdriver too?
Sleep on a washing line if needed :-)
Jun 30 18:28:45 <tyche> At one time I might have had the reason to try.
Now, with no reason out there to goad me, I have other things to
occupy my time.
Jun 30 18:29:07 <tyche> Yea, Are you saying poor schestowitz is "hung
out to dry". LOL
Jun 30 18:29:25 <dpawson> I bet he's taking notes!
Jun 30 18:29:37 <schestowitz> No, not really
Jun 30 18:29:43 <dpawson> :-)
Jun 30 18:29:47 <tyche> Well, if he misses anything, I can always send
him the logs.
Jun 30 18:29:49 <tyche> :-D
Jun 30 18:29:57 <schestowitz> I just find the mailing list hard to
follow and there's disruption there too.
Jun 30 18:30:15 <dpawson> yes. Certainly need to keep up.
Jun 30 18:30:32 <dpawson> (Or accept that you'll skip some threads)
Jun 30 18:30:44 <tyche> True. Even for this philosophy trained (read BS
trained) individual, it does take some work to filter it all out.
Jun 30 18:31:14 <dpawson> Fall back on skim reading. Info overflow
breeds that as a bad habit.
Jun 30 18:31:32 <dpawson> (And talking in truncated sentences)
Jun 30 18:31:53 <tyche> I have a hard time with that. I tested out at
450 words per minute reading speed, 95% comprehension.
Jun 30 18:32:00 <dpawson> bt @ lest I dnt us txt spk
Jun 30 18:32:30 <dpawson> According to Rob I'm down at 25% comprehension.
Jun 30 18:32:36 <tyche> thts bcs uR not El33t. Hee hee
Jun 30 18:32:49 <dpawson> Go 'way :-)
Jun 30 18:33:24 <tyche> The main channel I'm in has some "interesting
characters" in it. I've had to learn to read l33t
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Jul 01 00:57:36 <bbaston> marbux has been unsubscribed by Mary McRae.
Jul 01 00:59:24 <tyche> I saw
Jul 01 01:01:15 <tyche> Well, he was warned.
Jul 01 01:02:22 <bbaston> :-O
Jul 01 01:09:45 <tyche> I have noticed that the activity on the mailing
list has increased again, and I'm seeing new names attached. This is a
GOOD thing.
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Jul 02 21:11:01 <schestowitz> There's an increase in a nonchalant
attitude towards Microsoft's abuses (
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9106158
). How quickly journos forget...
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**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 2 22:29:55 2008
Jul 02 22:29:55 * Now talking on #oiic
Jul 02 22:29:55 * Topic for #oiic is: ODF Implementation,
Interoperability and Conformance
Jul 02 22:29:55 * Topic for #oiic set by jmarsden at Sat Jun 21 04:15:49
2008
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Jul 05 11:42:55 <dpawson> Just for fun.
Jul 05 11:43:28 <dpawson> I created some xslt that strips out each
paragraph from the ODF spec and generates a test specification skeleton
in docbook xml.
Jul 05 11:43:46 <dpawson> ... Just needs filling in now :-)
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--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Freelance journalist @ http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Open Source, non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
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