__/ [ Larry Qualig ] on Monday 06 March 2006 18:15 \__
>
> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> __/ [ Larry Qualig ] on Monday 06 March 2006 15:47 \__
>>
>> > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>> >> http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/3517/106/
>> >>
>> >> In a nutshell, OO is said to be 10 years behind.
>> >>
>> >> Why do Microsoft even bother to comment about the competition? I direct
>> >> the question at Larry.
>> >
>> > I'd be happy to answer the question but the site appears down. Short
>> > answer - can't view the page.
>>
>> I tried two Slashdot mirrors. None of the two which I am familiar with
>> managed to snatch a copy off the server before it had been knocked out of
>> commission. I am not convinced that the article in its entirety is re-
>> quired for an answer, so allow me to say this:
>
> Stuff like this happens. A few weeks ago I printed up a couple of Linux
> and grub references (cheat-sheets) and stuck them in a 3-ring binder.
> Someone asked (perhaps you) if that was a bit old fashioned and why I
> didn't bookmark the web-site. It probably is old fashioned but there's
> nothing more frustrating than having a web-site or page suddenly
> disappear without warning.
The site is not gone. It is temporarily unavailable due to heavy load.
As regards your work habits, which involve the use of paper (it was me who
called it an old-fashioned methodology by the way), I have no problem with
that. I merely try to make constructive suggestions, but I know too well
that the old generation is tougher to bend. My dad has had the Palm in the
cradle for over a year and he is still reluctant to master it. He want to,
but he won't do it.
I still try to save all Web sites that refer to me or my site, but I never
look back at these. I compress them into monthly archives. I accumulate text
files with commands of interest and save them locally, as well as on
Webspaces, so I need never rely on a collection of scattered (and often
broken) links.
When you find yourself surrounded by heaps of papers and folder, you will
realise why paper can never be properly organised. It has a limit impose on
/depth/. In my Department, I was among the first people to make an open
statement against use of paper, so I still live a paperless life. To
compensate for inevitable and frustratingly-important paperwork, I use the
scanner to digitise. Digitisation in general is an aspect that intrigues me
and I recently scanned all my photo albums. In fact, your recent question as
regards pets had me aware of the fact that I had never posted a picture of
my dog anywhere. I did so on that same afternoon, by pulling old digitised
albums (http://schestowitz.com/Weblog/archives/2006/03/04/jenny-the-dog/ ).
As I juggle between streams of consciousness, I might as well involve the
issue of operating systems. [Windows bashing unavoidably lurks /] Linux
offer tremendous filesystem advantages, as well as scalability. Windows was
design for a home user (call it a Toy O/S) and it /shows/. Windows simply
could not contain some important corporate and server-inclined needs. It did
not accommodate for what it calls "deep paths", which I find to be an
embarrassment (see for example:
http://chris.pirillo.com/blog/_archives/2006/2/8/1751817.html ).
Returning to topic, re-use is very important in research. Getting an abstract
that is concise, precise and unambiguous can take an hour overall. One must
stick with long paths in order for to file, discover, preview, and re-use
files. KDE does an excellent job of thumbnailing PDF's 'on the fly'. How
deep and informative can the file system tree be however? Long enough for
Windows to be unable to contain and handle, so I moved all my filestore to
Linux (I had 2 Linux boxes, 1 Windows laptop at the time). On Linux, all
200,000 files or so are neatly filed and organised. No filesystem is
involved that is a few decades old and was set up and formalised by a bunch
of computer hobbyists without academic qualifications *cough* Gates /et al./
*cough*.
>> * Someone who hijacked this thread received 6 direct responses (and count-
>> ing). If only Linux advocacy got fed more often. My question was not an-
>> swered, but instead I was lynched by an arbitrary and capricious, of-
>> f-the-arse FUD attack. Does this provide an explanation as to why threads
>> are led to Microsoft products getting bashed? Get that Funkenbusch off
>> this list as he doesn't belong here. He is nothing but off-topic nuisance.
>>
>> * Can you answer the question above knowing what it generally alludes to?
>
> I can try.
>
>
>> * Can you defend "Get the facts" campaigns? What about some of the
>> racist and stereotypical comments made by Microsoft's CEO?
>
> I'm not in a position to defend or support "Get the facts" at this
> point. Simply because I only have a basic idea of what it is and
> probably 90% of what I know about this campaign I picked up here in
> COLA. I've never actually read any of the 'Get the facts' material
> (doesn't seem all that interesting) although I have an idea of what it
> probably is which is basically marketing propoganda.
>
> I'm not aware of Gates making any racist or stereotypical comments but
> and it is possible that he may have. I would actually be surprised if
> he did simply because high visibility people like that are almost
> always careful not do say anything like that in public. Anything and
> everything they say thats the least bit controversial usually makes it
> to the press and ends up as bad publicity.
Actually, the CEO has been Steve Ballmer, for quite a few years in fact. And
he wasn't racist toward his fellow Chimpanzees (Ballmer is said to be a
baboon, I believe). The man is full of it. Chair throwing is not the only
indication of his inability to remain humble and apologetic.
>> My point is but one: both sides play the dirty game once there is invoca-
>> tion and provocation. It comes from _both_ sides, so never play naive or
>> never turn into a drama queen.
>
> I'm not sure if you mean "both sides" as in COLA or both sides as in
> Microsoft and its marketing machine. But what you've said applies
> equally well to both. As far as the drama queen goes... it's not clear
> what you mean by that.
There are many participants in this groups that pull the discussion
Windows-ward, often intentionally so. Few of these participants have
actually used Linux throughout their lifetime. These very same participants
often beg for flames too. They are here merely to stir up a hornet's nest. I
don't respect that.
>> As I said before, why not filter /C.O.L.A./
>> as means of straining it to its quality? There is plenty of garbage here,
>> but many insightful minds too. There are hundreds of daily posts. Select
>> the ones that suit you better. Don't be impulsive and use careful
>> judgement /before/ reading posts. It would work to your benefit, trust me.
>
> There are plenty of games and maneuvering here in COLA to be sure.
> Certainly plenty of garbage as you've pointed out but there are also
> some good points made as well. Sometimes these points come from the
> least likely candidates and I know that I've been pleasantly surprised
> at times.
>
> Some really good posts don't agree with my position on an issue. That
> doesn't mean that the post is stupid or make the poster retarded. It
> just means that we have a difference of opinion.
Aragorn posted a good little write-up a few hours ago. I will cautiously
quote it verbatim below, also in its entirety.
__/ [ Aragorn ] on Monday 06 March 2006 16:29 \__
> On Monday 06 March 2006 01:25, Mathew P. stood up and spoke the
> following words to the masses in /comp.os.linux.advocacy...:/
>
>> On 2006-03-05, Aragorn spake thusly:
>>
>>> Sadly enough, you fail to do so. /C.O.L.A./ is starting to become
>>> the home of trolls more and more. Everytime /tab,/ /DFS/ or /billwg/
>>> post something, the thread is bound to go on forever.
>>
>> So what? I don't know about you, but Usenet is not my life.
>
> I'm always serious about what I do, and that includes GNU/Linux
> advocacy. Thusly, I take participating in this group seriously.
>
>> You don't like trolls, don't read thier posts. You don't like troll
>> threads? You don't have to. Tough luck.
>
> For now, I'm still stuck with very limited filter capabilities.
> /C.O.L.A./ has some 500+ new posts every 24 hours, of which half will
> be marked with a lower score by the filtering rules I currently have in
> place, and thus be blocked from my view.
>
> However, if trollfeeding and incorrect posting style - void of all
> snipping - continue to exist, then it's no use that I /killfile/
> anyone, as their entire drivel will show up in multiple places across
> the thread anyway.
>
> Of the 500+ or so posts every day, only two or three are really worth
> reading.
>
>>> This newsgroup has already long lost its sense of purpose, which was
>>> the advocation of the GNU/Linux operating system, and to a lesser
>>> degree of Free & Open Source Software.
>>
>> Newsgroup police alert.
>
> No, autistic person alert. I've stated my condition and the resulting
> effect of the autism-originating neuroses on my personality more than
> once.
>
> But my comment still stands. This group should actually be renamed to
> /comp.os.windows.vista/ or something. It would be far more
> appropriate.
>
>> The reason for any group is to have lively discussions and enjoyable
>> interactions.
>
> What's enjoyable about arrogant trolls, Microsoft apologists and
> condescending spindoctors? Are you a masochist by any chance?
>
>> If we go off topic at times, again, who cares?
>
> Going off-topic at times? This group is barely ever *on-topic...*
>
>> it's just a news group (although I must admit to a certain irritation
>> to crossposting and obscenities).
>
> That's one aspect of it too, yes.
>
>>> Now, it's just some back and forth debating over Windows Vista and
>>> Microsoft, and any post from /tab,/ /DFS,/ /billwg/ or /flatfish/ is
>>> a recipe for a successful thread. Hell, people don't even respect
>>> the rules to proper posting anymore.
>>
>> I find good trolls rather amusing. I find trolls that are bad
>> at what they do rather annoying.
>
> You must have a very strange sense of humor. What's the point in
> refuting a troll if the troll has as much support from co-trolls than a
> GNU/Linux advocate has from other GNU/Linux advocates?
>
> Feeding trolls is showing them respect. Showing someone respect makes
> that person more self-assured. Self-assured trolls keep on coming
> back, because nobody's really doing anything about it.
>
> Saying you enjoy it is like saying that when you were a kid, you enjoyed
> other kids being beaten up in the schoolyard, as long as the bullies
> were good at doing their damage.
>
>> Such is life. As for the rules to proper posting, unless it's a
>> moderated group, the only thing resembling rules is courtesy and
>> netiquette.
>
> Both which are hardly to be found ever here on /C.O.L.A./ As a simple
> example, /DFS/ - just to name but one troll - has been establishes as a
> racist on multiple occasions and has even openly admitted to being a
> white supremacist.
>
> He has also openly stated that he has no respect for the Netiquette.
> Yet, people still continue to feed him, and /DFS: feels snugly at home
> here on /C.O.L.A./
>
> The /Netiquette/ requires proper posting style. This means that quoting
> should be relevant and trimmed. How many here do that? At least
> that's one quality Erik Funkenbusch can't be denied of having; I have
> to hand it to him. When I want to read a post of his, I don't have to
> scroll down 100+ lines of totally irrelevant quoting to see what he has
> to say.
>
>>> I myself am seriously contemplating leaving this group... :-/
>>
>> Feel free. However, I think you might reexamine your reasons.
>
> My reasons are valid, unfortunately. In addition, I don't believe
> proper advocacy has anything to gain from this newsgroup. Newbies
> don't come here for advice. It's just the same bunch of people arguing
> back and forth, and most of the time it's even about /ad/ /hominem/
> arguments.
>
> I want to advocate GNU/Linux and Free & Open Source. /C.O.L.A./ is just
> not the right place for it anymore. It's become a group where
> Microsoft fans and Microsoft haters jump at eachother's throat. Oh
> yes, and let's not forget the long threads of MacIntosh debating...
>
> Like you said, it's only a newsgroup. Therefore, it should only consume
> my time for as much as it pleases me. And it doesn't please me
> anymore... :-/ As I have said before, I have more success advocating
> GNU/Linux and refuting trolls in other newsgroups.
>
> Refuting and feeding are not the same thing, you know. The first one
> makes them go away. The second one makes them come back for more.
Aragorn, by the way, is one participants whose posts are worth reading. If I
went by the #ffffff-list approach, he would probably be included.
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