Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> High Plains Thumper wrote:
>
>> Trolls in this newsgroup have continued the mantra that
>>
>> o Microsoft is not a monopoly contrary to the court cases,
>
> There's a difference between being a monopoly, and having monopoly
> power. Further, the market has changed a great deal since 1998, when
> Judge Jackson ruled that Linux was inconsequential and couldn't compete
> with Microsoft. Apple has since entered the market as well.
>
> Are they still a monopoly? I don't know, maybe. Maybe not. Do they
> still have a lot of power, possibly monopoly power? Maybe, maybe not.
However not to worry, Justice Kollar-Kotelly clarified that Microsoft is
indeed a monopoly:
http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/msdoj/2002/Lit11-1.pdf
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
STATE OF NEW YORK, et al., Plaintiffs v. MICROSOFT CORPORATION, Defendant.
Civil Action No. 98-1233 (CKK)
MEMORANDUM OPINION
Page 27
[quote]
It bears repeating that the monopoly in this case was not found to have
been illegally acquired, see United States v. Microsoft, 56 F.3d 1448,
1452 (D.C. Cir. 1995),24 but only to have been illegally maintained.
[/quote]
>> o Linux is buggy although it runs on high end mainframes and mission
>> critical environments,
>
> Large parts of Linux (meaning distro's) *ARE* buggy, but other parts are
> pretty stable, but generally those stable parts are also very old
> versions of software that lack the cool things that people want. When I
> run KDE on a modern distro (ie, not an enterprise version or debian
> stable) I see the KDE crash dialog all the time.
>
> Having said that, for use as a web server or mail server, or many other
> purposes it's quite stable. Then again, using Windows for such is just
> as stable for me.
>
> The point is, if you run stable software, you get stable results. When
> you run unstable software, you get unstable results. It happens both on
> Windows and Linux.
KDE is buggy? Not according to users, not according to the EU. This
production environment is quite happy with the stability and security of
Linux and KDE.
http://enterprise.kde.org/bizcase/showbizcase.php?id=71
[quote]
At Eureka! Translation, a technical translation firm specializing in
english and french translation, we have migrated our work platform to KDE
on Linux. This includes workstations and servers. The day-to-day
translation activities use KDE office and internet software which includes
kontact & kolab for groupware & email, kopete IM, and kgpg for secure
transmission & reception of client documents. We are very happy with KDE
on Linux. The overall stability of Linux is the first thing for us, but
the great look and feel of KDE along with its numerous features and
ongoing improvements make us confident in keeping it as our desktop
environment and promoting its use by our clients.
[/quote]
KDE is a reputable organisation, to be considered trustworthy enough to
benchmark software quality.
http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/document/6269
[quote]
EU: Quality check for Open Source Software eGovernment News – 13
November 2006 – European Institutions – Open Source Software
The European Commission has awarded €1.6 million in funding to a
consortium of leading European consultants and research bodies – the
Software Quality Observatory for Open Source Software (SQO-OSS) – to
analyse and benchmark the quality of open source software and prove its
suitability for use in European business.
<SNIP>
Lead by the Athens University of Economics and Business, consortium
participants include UK-based Sirius Corporation, *KDE* e.V. and ProSyst
in Germany, KDAB in Sweden and the Aristotle University of Thessaloniki,
Greece.
[/quote]
KDE has support from EU and the Scottish Parliament. OTOH, a
representative of the Scottish Parliament concludes Microsoft is not open
and progressive, kind of sad, really.
http://ec.europa.eu/idabc/en/document/7154
[quote]
EU: Open Source better for public services, functionally and politically
Open Source News - 11 July 2007 - EU and Europe-wide - General
Open Source computing has a closer fit to public services than does
proprietary IT, says Patrick Harvie, a Green Party representative in the
Scottish Parliament.
"It is difficult to persuade health services and other public services to
use Open Source. It may or may not be cheaper, if you factor in the costs
of running and maintaining it. But it actually is better. It is better
functionally and politically. It fits better with their attitude to public
service and the way the public sector should be run for the public good."
Harvie spoke at a Open Source conference in Glasgow, Scotland on 30 June.
The meeting was organised by programmers working on *KDE*, a collection of
Open Source desktop applications.
The Scottish MP believes public services could maximise their public
benefits if they would use open source software or if they would Open
Source the software that is custom made for them. "It is a crying shame
that the public sector instinctively keeps spending large amounts of
taxpayers' money on designing (proprietary) software. The maximum benefit
for the public good would mean maximum use of that software."
The MP described how he was contacted by a Microsoft official within days
of submitting his first questions about the cost of Microsoft in the
Scottish government. He says the company has vasts amounts of money to
"persuade people like me that they are just doing their jobs and that they
really are open and progressive. They are not."
[/quote]
Your point does not mirror my experiences with Linux and KDE. I use KDE on
a regular basis and have not experienced any of the crashing nature you
express. Even 10 years ago I worked with KDE Version 1.0 on a regular
basis, and did not experience the crashing nature you express.
OTOH, I experienced the crashing of Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows 95
OSR2, Windows 98 and Windows 98SE on a regular basis. A task crash in
these versions required a reboot in order to restore stability.
Animated games provide an excellent opportunity for exploring the
stability of a graphical desktop environment. I was lucky if I could get
50 minutes play in Heroes of Might and Magic III in Windows 98. With the
same hardware in SuSE Version 6.4, I experienced no crashes in Loki Games'
version of the same. My son could found that the internet responsiveness
of the game under Linux and KDE was quicker than with Windows. By getting
in first, he could host an on-line tournament, since he could beat out his
opponent Windows colleagues. This was on my dual boot Windows/Linux
system.
In KDE 1.0, I experienced an occasional crashing of KMail, but none of the
other KDE applications. However, a crashed task did not take out the
operating system. There was no degredation of the stability of the
operating system that required a reboot. When Kmail crashed, I would
simply restart Kmail and continue working in KDE.
>> o Linux applications are amateurish but Microsoft applications are
>> professional (despite applications like Open Office, K3B and others are
>> well written and much of the Internet runs from Linux servers),
>
> Much of the internet runs on Windows servers too. There are certainly
> good Linux apps, I doubt many people (other than pure trolls) would deny
> that. Open Office, however, is a so-so app. It's Slow, bloated, buggy,
> and incomplete, and it's not as polished as Office is. It's advocates
> make outrageous claims of 100% compatibility (it used to actually say
> that on the web site before they got wise and took that down).
> Basically, it's boring.
http://www.techweb.com/wire/hardware/167100912
Indiana Schools opted for StarOffice, the commercial version of
OpenOffice. They considered it an excellent alternative to Microsoft
Office suite.
[quote]
August 04, 2005 (12:46 PM EDT)
Indiana's Goal: Linux On Every High School Desktop
By W. David Gardner
A program to provide desktop computers to every Indiana high school
student is giving an Indiana company and open-source provider Linspire an
opening to provide low-cost systems to students across the state.
The Indiana State Department of Education has stated its wishes that the
300,000 high school students in the state each receive their own computer.
Indiana-based Wintergreen Systems has been supplying hundreds of computers
to students in pilot programs.
"So far shipments are pretty much scattered around the state," said Aaron
Leonard, Wintergreen vice president. "The reception has been fabulous.
Everyone is on a very tight budget." Leonard said the relative low-cost of
the Linspire operating system coupled with its ease-of-use has helped make
the program successful to date.
Nearly all of the computers shipped are loaded with the Linspire OS and
OfficeStar, the open-office software that includes word processing,
spreadsheet, and database functions. Individual school districts often
load some software of their own, and some schools have been able to save
additional funds by booting software directly off networks.
Very few computers are being shipped with Microsoft's Windows operating
system, said one source, who asked not to be identified by name.
Linspire reported that thousands of Linspire/Wintergreen machines have
been shipped to dozens of school districts across the state. It said that
the Linspire/Wintergreen combo systems are the leading desktop Linux
system available to the schools, although other firms are able to provide
systems to the state's schools.
[/quote]
Singapore Airlines is using StarOffice as a solution for business
travelers as an alternative to laptop software and Microsoft Office.
http://www.sun.com/aboutsun/pr/2007-05/sunflash.20070529.1.xml
[quote]
Sun Microsystems Powers the First Productivity Suite in the Sky
Singapore Airlines, the First Airline to Offer a Productivity Suite, Has
Chosen Sun Microsystems' StarOffice as Its Software of Choice
SANTA CLARA, Calif. May 29, 2007 Sun Microsystems, Inc. (Nasdaq: SUNW)
today announced that Singapore Airlines has rolled out StarOffice software
in its new Boeing 777-300ER aircraft. Singapore Airlines is the first and
only airline to install a productivity suite for the benefit of its
passengers who can now continue to work after boarding the plane without
having to power up their laptops. In addition to providing the world’s
widest First and Business Class seats and a technologically advanced seat
in Economy Class, Singapore Airlines has also introduced StarOffice
software as part of its next generation KrisWorld inflight entertainment
system to meet the increasingly dynamic needs of travelers today.
Passengers from Singapore Airlines will be able to use StarOffice's word
processing, spreadsheets and presentation tools.
With the ever-discerning premium traveler, it is imperative that airlines
find ways to differentiate themselves from the competition. Yet no other
airline has come close to the technological offerings that Singapore
Airlines offers its customers in the form of the KrisWorld entertainment
system. The first of the new Boeing 777-300ER aircraft was delivered
progressively from November, and entered commercial services on
Singapore-Paris route in early December 2006. Singapore Airlines currently
deploys the 777-300ER aircraft to destinations such as Paris, Zurich,
Seoul, San Francisco, Milan, Barcelona and Hong Kong.
"With heightened security, access to laptops during flights can sometimes
be restricted. The availability of StarOffice software as part of
KrisWorld, offers Singapore Airlines' customers the opportunity to work on
and access their information in an open, secure and freely available
fashion independent of any vendor or file formats during their flights,"
said Wong Heng Chew, Managing Director, Singapore, Sun Microsystems. "Sun
Microsystems is proud to be the Airline’s solution provider of choice.
With StarOffice software supporting an increasing number of productivity
file formats like Open Document Format and Microsoft Office, travellers
can access such files through a single application with a USB storage
device and even export documents in PDF format."
StarOffice software is a complete, feature-rich office productivity
product that includes powerful word processing, spreadsheets,
presentations, database, graphics, drawing, photo editing and web
publishing applications. It is user-friendly and is compatible with
Microsoft Office.
[/quote]
OpenOffice lacks some of the wizards and clipart, perks in StarOffice.
However in OpenOffice Version 2, I can open PowerPoint slides, import text
file tables (comma separated, tab separated, spaced column, etc.) into its
spreadsheet, open complex, linked multitab spreadsheets and open Word
documents. The results are impressive enough that I have opted to use it
on my laptop instead of Microsoft Office 2003.
>> o Microsoft desktop is polished although Linux Gnome and KDE offered
>> multiple desktops 10 years ago and Beryl 3D desktop runs on modest
>> hardware (try that with Vista),
>
> I had multiple desktops on Windows 15 years ago on Windows 3.1 (There
> was a program from Norton called Norton Desktop that included the
> functionality).
I had that application, too. Compared with the Windows 3.1 desktop, which
was rather boring, Norton did a bang up job. Plus, Norton provided
additional tools to boot. I really liked their version of defrag.
> That's not really the issue though. I'd say the Linux desktop has more
> candy than Windows, yeah. It's more customizable, sure. It has lots of
> features that are hard to get on Windows. Yep.
>
> But it's not consistent. That's what most businesses have a problem
> with. At least with Windows, you always have the option to go back to
> classic mode for consistency between versions.
Businesses have problems with inconsistencies? Whether I choose KDE,
Gnome or XFCE, they allow me access to the same applications. Linux
allows me to choose my desktop environment during login. There are no
inconsistencies. This holds true even 10 years ago. Linux allows me
multiple desktops and through Beryl, I have a 3D desktop without upgrading
my hardware.
>> o Microsoft naturally supports hardware whereas Linux still has
>> problems, although on my Dell laptop, I needed to install the specific
>> Dell chipset drivers before I had a decent screen, yet Linux detected
>> all my hardware without installing additional separate drivers,
>
> Windows supports more hardware than Linux, especially new hardware. This
> whole "in the box" argument is stupid, and always has been. Windows
> Vista supports things that Linux has never supported, nor will likely
> ever support, such as legal HD playback.
http://linuxgazette.net/issue52/bolzern.html
[quote]
Issue 1: Competitive Operating Systems
The case brought by "We The People" against Microsoft was for its alleged
unfair trading practices that, among other things, stifled innovation.
Microsoft countered that charge in their Proposed Findings document by
saying there is considerable evidence of significant innovation in the
marketplace. Indeed, Microsoft cited Linux very prominently among
"competitive operating systems" and quoted Gordon Eubanks, CEO of Oblix,
as saying Linux has already become a "viable commercial solution."
Microsoft also cited that Linux "runs on various popular microprocessor
architectures, such as Intel's x86, Compaq's Alpha, Silicon Graphics MIPS,
Motorola's PowerPC and Sun's SPARC."
A month later Microsoft flip-flopped in its Linux Myths by saying, "Linux
does not provide support for the broad range of hardware in use today."
Microsoft was, in fact, right the first time. In reality, Linux supports
most exciting PC hardware and much non-PC hardware. Linux is an innovative
extension of Unix as noted in my 1994 document "Why Linux is Significant,"
which predicted correctly many years ago the state of Linux today
(http://www.LinuxMall.com/news/announce/lxsig).
[/quote]
http://irfanhabib.wordpress.com/2006/09/10/myths-about-linux/
[quote]
Myth 3: Linux has limited hardware support!
Modern distributions such as Knoppix and Redhat (and its latest version
called Fedora), and Mandrake have state of the art hardware detections,
although support for Generic hardware, (hardware that is not attributed to
any specific manufacturer) is limited. Win-modems are another problem;
win-modems are modems where the manufacturers make Microsoft Windows
drivers only. But branded hardware is fully supported, and furthermore as
Linux spreads, USB Robotics, ATI, nVidia, Asus and other companies have
started to issue Linux drivers for there respective hardware, even a Linux
driver is available for Pentium 4 motherboards from Intel.
Although Most Linux systems are based on standard PC hardware, and Linux
supports a very wide range of PC devices. However, it also supports a wide
range of other computer types, including Alpha, Power PC, 680×0, SPARC,
and Strong Arm processors, and system sizes ranging from PDAs (such as the
PalmPilot) to supercomputers constructed from clusters of systems (Beowulf
clusters).
[/quote]
>> o and ad nauseum.
>>
>> It is time for linvocates and Open Source supports to complete the "mop
>> up" operations. :-)
>
> Linux, by the nature of the way it works, will always have certain
> inherant disadvantages. Being open means that you'll likely never have
> legal HD playback, and you're constantly having to reverse engineer
> devices, making it 6 months to a year before they are supported, if
> ever.
>
> If you're willing to live with that, and you don't care about specific
> apps that won't run on Linux even under Wine, and you are more into
> customizability than consistency, and you don't care if you can't find
> support at GeekSquad or other services, and a host of other issues
> you'll face if you choose Linux, then maybe it's the right thing for
> you.
>
> For everyone else, it's the devil you know.
According to:
http://www.codeweavers.com/site/compatibility/browse/cat
Codeweavers supports 3,108 Windows applications which will run in Linux.
Apps Category
57 Educational Software, CBT
565 Games
494 Multimedia
335 Networking & Communication
13 Non Applications
739 Productivity
140 Programming / Software Engineering
96 Reference/Documentation/Info
328 Scientific/Technical/Math
208 Special Purpose
133 Utilities
3,108 Total
.... and saving the best for last:
>> This is one thing I do not see done by trolls that have set up camp in
>> comp.os.linux.advocacy: Behaving ethically as though under close
>> scrutiny and TELLING THE TRUTH.
>
> You confuse common trols with Windows advocates. Common trolls are here
> to stir you up, and really don't have a position. They'll argue
> whatever side (and often argue one way in one group and another in the
> opposite group) merely as a way to rile you up. That's what the
> majority of trolls that come in and do nothing but complain about how
> bad Linux is are doing.
>
> In other words, their agenda is not to promote Microsoft, but rather to
> get a rise out of you, and it appears to be working, since you believe
> all those people are really out to get you.
After reading through your FUD reply, poster Robert Parsonage had it right
about you in his blog:
http://colatrolls.blogspot.com/2007/01/erik-funkenbusch-troll.html
[quote]
Saturday, January 27, 2007
The Erik Funkenbusch Troll
Name: Erik 'the weasel' Funkenbusch
Traits:
* Microsoft apologist with no peer
* Spreads FUD about Linux, OSS & GPL (did the same when OS/2 was a
threat to Microsoft)
* Habitual liar
* When caught lying runs away
* Will resort to unethical means to denigrate Linux advocates - always
fails
* Funkenbusch is utterly devoid of ethical values
* Known to cross post to other Linux newsgroups in a futile attempt at
causing more disruption
* Obsessed with Roy Schestowitz
* Racist (see below regarding 419 scams)
[/quote]
--
HPT
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