____/ wjp on Monday 24 September 2007 00:24 : \____
> On Sun, 23 Sep 2007 06:41:53 +0100, Roy Schestowitz
> <newsgroups@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>I has just occurred to me that Windows was left somewhat behind in the 'dark
>>ages' of the CLI. For example, in order to obtain the MAC address of a
>>network device in Linux, one just need to click on buttons and follow the
>>GUIs. Nice and easy, right?
>>
> //snipped for brevity//
>
> Roy, I truly admire all the work you do for Linux Advocacy, however, I
> am in a state of frustration right at the present over a couple of Linux
> complexity's that I find unacceptable.
>
> I just installed Debian 4.0R1 on this machine, (though I am writing this
> in Windows XP - Forte Agent). I installed Pan so that I could read the
> Linux newsgroups, and it downloaded the last 5 days of messages with no
> problem.
>
> In one of the messages, a You-Tube url was given. I clicked on the
> reference, and it took me to the You-Tube site. However, it would not
> play the movie (in Epiphany) because it said that I did not have the
> latest Flash player. I can understand that. I went to the reference
> and downloaded the tar-gz file, then opened the file and it created a
> folder with three files in it.
To be fair, on a fresh installation of Windows, this would not have worked
either. With IE, the user would be referred to Adobe's Web site (or otherwise
it might have to be common knowledge, possibly a shout to the next-door
neighbour) and then follow what has become a /familiar/ Windows installation
procedure (lest we forget that there has been some consistency since Windows
3, so we take difficulty -- or lack thereof -- for granted). Firefox on
Windows tends to suggest that the user downloads plugins and it has a
user-friendly way of doing this.
Now, at this point, it ought to be mentioned that Debian was never optimised to
serve our less computer savvy relatives and friends. It's also not attempting
to looks familiar (i.e. "like Windows") or simplified for computer-illeterate
users. It's just not the audience that many developers have in mind, which is
why diversity exists among distributions.
A distribution like Mint Linux takes Ubuntu and assumes that Tom, Dick and
Harry (the target audience) will not mind binary blobs like Flash, which work
out of the box. In Ubuntu, if I recall correctly, Flash installation is
proposed automatically (a GUI thing), or is maybe available from the package
manager (a box-ticking thing). I can't recall for sure and new versions keep
improving. For example, MP3 support and other codecs can be enabled via popups
that show up automatically when they are needed.
> Now here is where Linux is NOT simple, NOT easy. I could not, and have
> not yet found those three files or the directory where they're located.
> I did a file search and it showed that the files are out there, but,
> when I opened a terminal, I could not get to them. Okay, I give up.
Some of these hurdles that you found in Debian you could possibly just leap by
purchasing (hypothetically) a PC that was built to include various addons
(like OEMs do with Windows). That's why the fight for the OEMs is so crucial
and it's gradually being won (Lenovo made difference last year and Dell opened
the floodgates this year... to be followed by Epson, H-P, Lenovo's bigger
commitments, Acer... even rumours and plans at Toshiba, among others).
> Next, I did a check and it seems that Firefox is installed somewhere on
> the machine. Hmmmmmmmmmm......... the opening icon is nowhere to be
> found. I go to the install mechanism, and it appears that Firefox's
> name has been changed to IceWeasel - however, it does not have the Flash
> plugin installed either.
>
> So, to make a seemingly long story short - I gave up, and returned to
> Forte Agent - where, should I run across that You-Tube url again, I'm
> sure that if I click on the url, that I will immediately be taken to
> You-Tube and Firefox will definitely play that movie.
One thing to bear in mind is that it takes time to set up a Linux PC for all
your needs to be served and the same applied to Windows, especially if you
build it from scratch. Once it's set up, Linux will run for years without a
problem. I don't think I have installed anything on this box that I use at the
moment for several months. Based on my experience, the same cannot be said
about Windows, which tends to complicate its own state. At some stage,
starting from scratch again is the wiser choice, price- and time-wise.
> Two factors that hinder any distribution of Linux from being totally
> accepted and spread to others is its lack of consistancy and simplicity.
> For instance: If I unRAR a file in Windows, I know where the files will
> be placed, because it asks me where I want to put them. There is no
> such choice in Debian. And, why, on an inital install, must I search
> out and install various plug-ins just to watch a You-tube movie?
I am surprised that downloading a compressed set of files is the route to
installing Flash in Debian. There ought to be a better way and I wonder if
Debian has Flash in the repository.
Oh, I've just had a certain picture brought back to mind... in Ubuntu 7.10 (out
next month), when Flash is needed, a GUI then appears saying that you need X
or Y to play it. It gives you the option to choose between gnash (open source
and free, GPLv3-licensed) and Adobe Flash (proprietary). All one has to do is
check the box and voila! Flash support is there. Installed. It would be nice
if Debian developers adopted (reused) that same type of mechanism.
> I will keep pressing on towards mastering Linux, however, in order to
> preclude frustration at not being able to accomplish simple tasks - on
> the spot, I must keep Microsoft Windows available.
>
> And keep up the good work, Roy!
It's always hardest at the start. This can be interpreted in two ways, both of
which are true:
- You do the most work (or experience the most frustration) when you set up a
new box or customise it for your needs (my desktop is a very odd one because
it's optimised to suit my workflow).
- You do the least work and accept the steep learning curve when you start
using Linux. When changing distributions, however, there is merely no
difference whatsoever. It's like switching between Win2K and XP. Many
people do it on a daily basis (e.g. in public clusters) and they obliviously
lose all awareness of the differences. The Portland project will further
bridge the gap between GNOME and KDE, over time.
--
~~ Best of wishes
Roy S. Schestowitz | No SCO code was used to generate this sig
http://Schestowitz.com | Free as in Free Beer | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Cpu(s): 26.4%us, 4.7%sy, 1.0%ni, 63.3%id, 4.1%wa, 0.3%hi, 0.2%si, 0.0%st
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