-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
____/ Snit on Saturday 02 Jul 2011 01:44 : \____
> Roy Schestowitz stated in post 2303810.OArtZ34EBd@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx on 7/1/11
> 5:30 PM:
>
> ...
>>> Homer stated in post u212e8-efv.ln1@xxxxxxxxxx on 7/1/11 4:16 PM:
>>>
>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>>>>> ____/ Homer on Friday 01 Jul 2011 21:58 : \____
>>>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>>>>
>>>>> He is hostile toward people who /preach/
>>>>
>>>> You mean like he preaches atheism?
>>>>
>>> If I pushed the "fact" of Zeus onto you and, if you have any, your kids,
>>> would you not "preach" that their claims were silly? How about if they
>>> preached that MS software was the only software ever worth using? Would you
>>> not "preach" that they were wrong.
>>>
>>> Of course you would.
>>>
>>>> So frankly the only difference is an opinion, where one side has apparently
>>>> decided to "debate" their opinion militantly.
>>>>
>>>> Sound familiar?
>>>>
>>> What? We are not talking *opinion* here, any more than we are talking just
>>> opinion to teach that MS software is the only valuable software. To your
>>> kids.
>>>
>>> And you would freak out. Yet you whine when others do so... over, frankly,
>>> bigger issues.
>>>
>>>>> to the gullible
>>>>>
>>>> You presume to know they're all gullible.
>>>>
>>> They are kids.
>>>
>>>> OTOH, those who /are/ actually gullible are just as susceptible to
>>>> propaganda from /either/ side of a debate. So again the only difference is
>>>> an opinion as to precisely /which/ side's propaganda is the "right" one.
>>>>
>>> The idea that people do not learn from the ideas they are exposed to
>>> (propaganda, in some cases) is just silly. Esp. kids. But next time you
>>> try to claim people are not affected by the info the see and hear, ask
>>> yourself why companies spend so much on ads.
>>>
>>> I mean, really, this is not hard to figure out.
>>>
>>>>> about it (about Santa, Tooth Fairy, or whatever other fiction).
>>>>
>>>> It's symbolism representative of one's beliefs, a source of joy for
>>>> people the world over, and the focal point for teaching ethical values,
>>>> regardless of its historical validity. And dismissing it as fictitious
>>>> is presumptuous, unless you claim to have unequivocal proof to the
>>>> contrary.
>>>
>>> The debate is not about teaching it as fictitious... it is not as though
>>> people are pushing to have a focus on the lack of "reality" of Zeus or the
>>> Christian God or whatever... the debate is if such myths should be taught as
>>> science. And they should not.
>>>
>>>> Even characters like Santa Claus (Sinterklaas) has origins in
>>>> historical fact (Saint Nicholas of Myra), and more importantly this
>>>> "fiction" teaches children the value of giving ... something I'd have
>>>> thought you'd find praiseworthy. There's nothing even remotely insidious
>>>> about any of it.
>>>
>>> What does that have to do with the idea of being against the idea of
>>> teaching myth as science?
>>>
>>>> Would you snatch a toy away from a child on Christmas day, lecture him
>>>> about Santa being nothing but creationist propaganda, accuse his parents
>>>> of being liars, then call social services and the police to have them
>>>> arrested and the child placed in care?
>>>>
>>>> Sounds rather Stalinist to me.
>>>
>>> So why would your straw man do that?
>>>
>>>> I'm not a Christian, but I celebrate Christmas nonetheless, because I
>>>> revere principles that extend beyond mere religion. I certainly don't
>>>> feel the urge to attack Christians ... at Christmas or any other time of
>>>> year.
>>>
>>> Not wanting people to push their myths onto my kids has nothing to do with
>>> my attacking anyone... I am not.
>>>
>>>>>>> Dawkins was an academic for many years (he is almost 70 now) and he
>>>>>>> wrote many technical books. It is the attack on his work and on himself
>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> The only thing I'm attacking is his militancy. His other activities mean
>>>>>> nothing to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>> He is a teacher.
>>>>>
>>>> So was the Unabomber.
>>>>
>>> Who cares?
>>>
>> AFAIK, he was an anarcho-primitivist who no longer was in academia (for
>> years). He was painting stuff (physical labour) for meager profit in his
>> later years. Calling him a teacher is simply inaccurate.
>
> From what I recall - without doing any searches - you are correct, or at
> least mostly so. But let us say he was a teacher. So what? His actions do
> not mean that all teachers are doing wrong or are like him. Homer was
> pushing a logical fallacy.
Serial killers are often smart people, but people get the correlation all reversed.
Every killer is a potential serial killer, but only the smarter ones manage
not to get caught and proceed to similar acts. So those who say it takes
brains to be driven to insanity (mass-murder) don't take into account
the correct causality. The police is very adamant on catching killers *because*
of the possibility of recurrence (nothing to lose after the first crime).
> Then again, his whole argument is pretty faulty: it is not like there are
> any but the most rare people who fit his caricature. For the most part, the
> people "against" the religious folks are not against anything other than
> myths being taught to their children as science. Gee, how horrible! Those
> who are pushing such teachings are clearly and unambiguously in the wrong,
> and to work against their agenda of teaching myth in the science room is
> *not* a sign of pushing any views on anyone else.
>
> If you do not want your kids to learn science, don't remove science from the
> classroom, remove your kid from the classroom. It is not like evolution is
> like sex ed where there might be objections to teaching details at
> inappropriate ages.
Sex education is embarrassing to young people because we teach them to be
embarrassed by it. It's not a natural deterrence.
- --
~~ Best of wishes
Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@xxxxxxxxx (24/7)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux)
iEYEARECAAYFAk4Oxo4ACgkQU4xAY3RXLo7w6QCeMK5MAMRNt4k5ySHuhBZEHjY2
KQgAoKn723d19azkZLxaqIo2HwK+f8W8
=NPZc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
|
|
