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____/ Snit on Saturday 02 Jul 2011 04:52 : \____
> Homer stated in post pgg2e8-9a1.ln1@xxxxxxxxxx on 7/1/11 8:39 PM:
>
>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>>> ____/ Homer on Saturday 02 Jul 2011 00:16 : \____
>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>>>>> ____/ Homer on Friday 01 Jul 2011 21:58 : \____
>>>>>> Verily I say unto thee, that Roy Schestowitz spake thusly:
>>>>
>>>>> He is hostile toward people who /preach/
>>>>
>>>> You mean like he preaches atheism?
>>>
>>>
>>> Preaching absence of something?
>>
>> No, inciting hatred and discrimination towards Christians.
>>
>> There's nothing passive about that.
>
> Where are you getting this idea of "hatred" from? Where? You talk about it
> is a lot but dodge every chance to actually show where you are getting it.
>
> Again: the point, at least as I see it, is just not wanting others to teach
> myths to my kids as a form a "science". Nothing hateful about that!
>
>>>> So frankly the only difference is an opinion, where one side has
>>>> apparently decided to "debate" their opinion militantly.
>>>>
>>>> Sound familiar?
>>>
>>> In an evidence-based debate there are hardly two sides in this case.
>>> Arguing about the invisible elephant under my bed might get the
>>> audience laughing, but I would lose the debate.
>>
>> But atheist militancy is not about the preponderance of evidence, or
>> even about establishing "fact" at all, it's about discriminating against
>> people who simply choose to live a certain way.
>
> And yet you cannot find examples of this... or, if you can, they are very
> rare. What you can find, I am sure, are examples of people not wanting
> mythology pushed on their kids (or on themselves).
>
>> So what if every religious principle contradicts science? What do you care?
>> It's not your life, so it's none of your business. Let them live like that if
>> they want to. Would you force a farmer to go live in the city because you
>> don't like the agrarian lifestyle? So why would you force a Christian to give
>> up /his/ lifestyle?
>
> When did he say he wanted to?
>
>>>>> to the gullible
>>>>
>>>> You presume to know they're all gullible.
>>>
>>> They are young and impressionable.
>>
>> Not every Christian is a child, and not every Christian even became a
>> Christian at a young age.
>>
>> But like I said, it's no more predatory to teach children about religion
>> than any other unproven theory (like the Big Bang), so it's only your
>> opinion that determines which one of those theories you personally
>> prefer, and your personal preferences are irrelevant to somebody else's
>> education.
>
> One is based on science. One is not. One should at least potentially be
> taught in schools as science. One should not.
>
> This is not complex.
>
>>>>> about it (about Santa, Tooth Fairy, or whatever other fiction).
>>>>
>>>> It's symbolism representative of one's beliefs, a source of joy for
>>>> people the world over, and the focal point for teaching ethical values,
>>>> regardless of its historical validity. And dismissing it as fictitious
>>>> is presumptuous, unless you claim to have unequivocal proof to the
>>>> contrary. Even characters like Santa Claus (Sinterklaas) has origins in
>>>> historical fact (Saint Nicholas of Myra), and more importantly this
>>>> "fiction" teaches children the value of giving ... something I'd have
>>>> thought you'd find praiseworthy. There's nothing even remotely insidious
>>>> about any of it.
>>>
>>> People do not derive ethical values from religion.
>>
>> I did, and so did many other people I know.
>
> While I tend to agree with you here - the morals taught are often absurd...
> and hand-picked from the bible. Why not teach that it is OK to stone those
> you think have done wrong - that is what the Bible says. It is simply not a
> good moral guide.
>
>>> In fact, very often the opposite can be argued.
>>
>> That's just blatant rhetoric and generalisation.
>>
>> The fact is you have no idea where others draw their inspiration. How
>> could you possibly know unless they tell you, as I just have?
>>
>> Of course, the mere fact that someone is taught moral values doesn't
>> mean they'll follow them, so simply /being/ a Christian is no guarantee
>> of moral behaviour, but that doesn't mean religion is of no moral
>> benefit.
>
> There is no reason to think Christians are any more moral than others.
>
>> It's just a source of inspiration, like any other. These days I
>> get /my/ inspiration from more modern sources, like Stiglitz, Stallman
>> and Lessig, but that doesn't mean I've abandoned the moral principles
>> expounded by various religions, even if I no longer have "blind faith"
>> in their more "supernatural" elements.
>>
>>> Did people go around murdering and stealing before religious
>>> deterrents came about?
>>
>> Yes of course, and they still do.
>
> Did religion reduce such? Does it now? Any evidence of this?
>
>> OTOH we've also seen a lot of altruism
>> and compassion as a direct result of religion. Take Mother Teresa and
>> Gandhi, for example, two of the most peaceful and compassionate people
>> the world has ever known. But militants don't like that sort of thing,
>> which is why they assassinated Gandhi, just like militant atheists are
>> trying to "assassinate" religion.
>
> Actually mostly trying to stop people from pushing their myths onto their
> kids and themselves.
>
>> Apparently it isn't enough for them to
>> just live peacefully as atheists, they have to attack religion too.
>
> You mean fight back when myths are pushed on themselves and their families.
Some of these myths are intended to benefit those who are higher up the pyramid/chain.
- --
~~ Best of wishes
Dr. Roy S. Schestowitz (Ph.D. Medical Biophysics), Imaging Researcher
http://Schestowitz.com | GNU/Linux administration | PGP-Key: 0x74572E8E
Editor @ http://techrights.org & Broadcaster @ http://bytesmedia.co.uk/
GPL-licensed 3-D Othello @ http://othellomaster.com
Non-profit search engine proposal @ http://iuron.com
Contact E-mail address (direct): s at schestowitz dot com
Contact Internet phone (SIP): schestowitz@xxxxxxxxx (24/7)
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