B Gruff <bbgruff@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> On Sunday 24 September 2006 12:54 Hadron Quark wrote:
>
>> B Gruff <bbgruff@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>>
>>> On Sunday 24 September 2006 12:09 Hadron Quark wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If I understood what you are talking about, perhaps I'd be in a
>>>>> position to
>>>>> discuss it. Would you like to explain? - or would you prefer not to
>>>>> discuss it?:-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Roy was complaining that redemption coupons lead people down the sheep
>>>> path. And yet totally FREE SW (ie Linux) doesnt.
>>>>
>>>> See? He is really is that confused.
>>>
>>> I'm still having difficulty following your "reasoning".
>>>
>>> Let's see if I have this right:-
>>>
>>> - MS makes a "donation", headlined as say "A million dollars"
>>>
>>> - We find that the "donation" is in MS coupons, redeemable against MS S/W
>>>
>>> - Roy claims that this costs MS very little, while there are large gains
>>> to MS
>>>
>>> - Those gains include:-
>>> - the coupons being worthless if the recipient does want MS stuff
>>> - "locking in" the recipient if the recipient *does* use them
>>> - getting MS a lot of publicity very cheaply
>>> - possibly reducing the uptake of anything non-MS
>>>
>>> As for your comments re. Linux, again I don't understand. Linux is free,
>>> always was free, always will be. This is no loss-leader!
>>> Perhaps you were under the illusion that if you accept MS coupons, MS
>>> continues to give you coupons for ever?
>>> Otherwise, I'm at a complete loss to understand what you are on about.
>>>
>
>> I don't want to be rude : but it seems obvious to me. You don't have to
>> take the coupons you know.
>
> I agree that you don't *have* to take the coupons.
> - but then, if it was a "donation" (to a school, state, country, etc) and
> they are not taken, there has been no "donation" has there, although there
> has still been the publicity? Again, the "Green Shield Stamp" syndrome -
> you can "give away" a great deal, if not many take up the "gift", and if in
> addition you count the "value" of the "gift" as full retail price.
> - or if it is in payment of a fine, the same reasoning applies - in many
> instances, the "fine" has not been paid?
>
> I could be wrong in all that. If you can assure me that such coupons are
> transferable, and can be legitimately and freely used by others, I am quite
> prepared to withdraw my comments and concede that the true value of such
> coupons is what they will fetch on e-bay - *provided* that they can then be
> used legitimately.
>
>> There is no "locking in" : can you explain what you mean by this?
>
> Pretty much the same as Bill Gates (he's a Microsoft guy, btw) meant when he
> was talking about his company's products being copied and used illegally in
> poorer countries - he said something along the lines of, "..and they'll get
> kinda addicted, and some day we'll start to charge them...."
>
>> Its this simple : if you don't want it, don't take it. Most companies give
>> freebies which are linked t their product. You would be mad not to.
>
> Sure they do.
> A "Free Sample" - like a tube of toothpaste, or a sachet of shampoo I can
> understand - good publicity etc., but it doesn't commit me to continuing to
> use that toothpaste/shampoo.
> Take the example of printers though - many are already (I believe) sold at a
> loss, and it is not inconceivable that manufacturers might start to GIVE
> them away. They can do so, but they hope to cover their loss (and make a
> profit) selling ink.
> If the recipient of the "gift" is aware of the cost of the ink, AND that he
> might have only one source of future supply, that's fine. However,
> claiming to be "giving" "free" printers to deserving causes would not quite
> be true, imo.
>
>> Possibly I've extended my thoughts too far : but I really dont see how
>> you dont at least follow my reasoning.
>
> I'm still trying to understand why you consider Roy/linux to be just
> as bad.
Because its using "free" to tempt people away from something they are
familiar : not particularly evil IMO, and I'm a Linux user myself, but
no worse than MS giving coupons. Despite being cheaper/free, if someone
installs free Linux and then uses from OSS specific apps then they are
kind of tied in too - there just aren't that many "platform defining"
apps for Linux as there are for MS.
> Are you under the impression perhaps that "linux is free now, but someday
> they'll charge you for it"?
Yes. For support. And for real applications. Sorry : they already do.
>
>
--
"...you might as well skip the Xmas celebration completely, and instead
sit in front of your linux computer playing with the
all-new-and-improved linux kernel version."
(By Linus Torvalds)
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