In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [H]omer
<spam@xxxxxxx>
wrote
on Tue, 22 May 2007 06:17:54 +0100
<31bai4-2ov.ln1@xxxxxxxxxx>:
> Verily I say unto thee, that The Ghost In The Machine spake thusly:
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, [H]omer <spam@xxxxxxx> wrote on Mon, 21
>> May 2007 20:07:21 +0100 <9879i4-35c.ln1@xxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>>> It is despicable when greedy corporations try to force non-profit
>>> organisations out of business, and turn what was an altruistic
>>> gesture into exploitation.
>
>> Or perhaps it only *looked* like an altruistic gesture. IIRC,
>> Microsoft donated some Windows software to India, for example.
>
> The difference is, that Negroponte is providing a non-profit service
> that only benefits these children, whereas Microsoft are just playing
> the "they'll get sort of addicted" game to ensure future "customer"
> loyalty (i.e. lockins).
IIUC, Negroponte is providing diddly-squat, though his
heart's in the right place. Then again, I'm not sure who's
actually paying that $100/laptop (actually $175 at the
moment, though costs will probably go down fairly soon).
>
>> How much will AMD make on this deal? I doubt it will make much,
>> though I do wonder.
>
> Of course AMD will make money on the deal, but it isn't AMD that's
> driving it. This is Negroponte's agenda, not theirs. The XO has to use
> *somebody's* CPU.
I'll admit to some curiosity as to why not interchangeable CPU's, but
haven't checked the mobo/laptop market lately.
>
>> How much would Intel make?
>
> I'd have no issue with Intel powering the XO, but now that the
> hardware spec is established, is is disgusting that they should
> attempt to sabotage this project out of sour grapes.
True.
>
>> How much would Microsoft make?
>
> It's not so much about how much *money* MS would make, as about how
> much of a *mess* they would make. Apart from anything else, the $100
> laptop would rapidly become the $1000 laptop. Can you imagine being
> some kid in Africa, under a tree, miles from the nearest access point,
> and your Windows powered OLPC tells you that "This copy of Windows is
> not Genuine". So you can't do anything at all that day with the
> machine, need to wait until the next day when you get to school (get
> to the access point) to try to fix the problem.
Assuming there's a problem, as opposed to Microsoft being glitchy again.
> And even then, would
> you actually *get* a satisfactory solution? Microsoft's support is
> horrendous in *developed* countries, I dread to think what it would be
> like in the middle of nowhere in Africa.
They'll probably VOIP it to India, if they can build enough
WiFi/cell towers. :-)
>
>>> It is clear that Barrett merely sees the Third World as an
>>> exploitable market, rather than a society of people who need our
>>> help. His attitude is repulsive. He should be stopped ... with
>>> legislation if necessary.
>
>> Not sure he's done anything illegal just yet, though I'm not sure I
>> like his tactics.
>
> During the last world war they had a name for that kind of behaviour;
> it was called profiteering, and was punishable by imprisonment IIRC.
True, though we're not exactly at war in Africa. At least,
the US isn't. But there are situations in Darfur and
Ethiopia/Eritrea/Somalia. In fact, there are situations
all over the continent, in the last decade or so:
http://www.africanculturalcenter.org/4_7wars.html
Ick.
How many of these wars can/could be forestalled by good
schooling, I for one don't know.
>
>> Then again, it is naive to think that he'd sit idly by and let AMD
>> grab the entire market.
>
> Starving kids in Africa is not a "market". Viewing it as such is
> cynical in the extreme. That's the whole point - this should not be
> about profit ... or profiteering, it should be about *aid*.
I'll admit to wondering about man's inhumanity to man,
at this point; "microloans" have paid off rather nicely
in some areas of Africa, allowing entepreneurs in the
continent to flourish -- at least, thus goes the standard
pap. I wish I had statistics, but Niger in particular
is rather corrupt, and I'm not sure how well the rest of
Africa is.
>
> If Bob Geldof offered a million tonnes of rice, supplied by Tilda, to
> the Ethiopians, would you expect Uncle Ben to come running over the
> hill with leaflets explaining how much better his rice was than
> Tilda's? Would you expect rice FUD campaigns, anti-Tilda seminars and
> lobbying of foreign governments?
>
> Of all industries, the IT industry is surely the most venomous and
> corrupt.
The IT industry is pure vapor, except for the actual
hardware. That might explain things in part. (It also
might explain why Linux is doing so well; IT inherently
copies to make things done, which makes for very low cost
distribution of the actual data/bits/software.)
>
>> One hopes the specs are clear enough so that both AMD and Intel
>> units can work together.
>
> The OLPC's Sugar interface was designed such that it would facilitate
> a simple and standardisable integration into the school curriculum
> across different continents. It's built on Free software (Fedora) and
> requires very little processing power. Intel's solution is to offer
> more expensive machines, with too much power (and therefore too little
> battery time), which of course is needed to run the bloated Windows OS
> it was designed for. That OS, in turn, would be gross overkill for the
> intended purpose, *not* facilitate a simple integration into these
> developing countries school curricula, further spread the disease of
> proprietary software and broken standards, and fleece the poor of more
> money than they could possibly afford (I'm thinking about the
> inevitable "planned obsolescence" and "forced upgrades" scenario in
> particular). The XO is also a remarkably robust machine, capable of
> surviving the harsh conditions likely in the environments it will be
> deployed. How long would the Classmate® survive? Five minutes? Good luck
> getting your Classmate serviced in the middle of the jungle.
Actually, the Classmate looks to be fairly rugged, according to
http://www.olpcnews.com/countries/chile/olpc_and_classmate_pc.html
so I wouldn't worry unnecessarily about that particular subaspect.
Battery life and such, I'm not as sure on. It's a 256 MB
RAM 2 GB NANDflash unit, with 900 MHz Celeron M. Interestingly,
the Wikipedia entry suggests Intel will be selling them preloaded
with Mandriva 2007. They are attempting to sell them to Mexico
and Brazil.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classmate_PC
and of course
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XO-1_%28laptop%29
>
> AMD's motivation was to sell units to Negroponte, who in turn was
> motivated by altruism. Intel's motivation is sabotage and greed.
Intel is also selling directly to schools. This is going
to get...messy.
>
>> (Wouldn't *that* be nice.)
>
> No.
Ah, well, interoperability is a forlorn dream for Microsoft, but
we may force them thereinto yet. :-) Fortunately, I'm not sure
they're a factor.
>
>>> This is also the first time I've seen and heard Negroponte himself
>>> in an interview, and I was struck by his very genuine
>>> demeanour. You can tell how passionate he is about his dream, to
>>> pull the poor children of the world out of the poverty trap and
>>> into modern society. Like he said, other than the satisfaction of
>>> having achieved a greater good with his benevolence, he will not
>>> profit by his actions, so to have a greedy corporation hound him
>>> and his project like this, is quite shocking.
>
>> It's sad, but I'm not sure it's all that shocking.
>
> What's shocking is their sheer brazenness. Have Intel and Microsoft no
> shame?
Shame is a learned behavior, like many others.
>
>>>> Nicholas Negroponte shows documents proving that Intel is
>>>> pressuring certain governments to not sign with OLPC and they also
>>>> use their money to prevent mass production of OLPC. It's the same
>>>> tactic they use to hurt AND. They engage in price wars that AMD
>>>> cannot stand. Watch the references below. They try to get the
>>>> children 'addicted' to a $3 Windows bundle. Still driven by greed.
>
>>> It's sickening.
>
>> Hmm....that could be worrisome. Of course, perhaps somebody goofed
>> in the initial bid setup? Ideally, the governments would have let
>> out competitive bids, with clear specs.
>
> There should be no need for a non-profit organisation to worry about
> "bidding".
In an ideal world, perhaps. But this isn't exactly one last I looked.
>
>> These would include POSIX compatibility, of course, plus whatever
>> other standards -- presumably WiFi is one of them -- are necessary
>> for interoperability. That is, after all, the objective. Never
>> mind who implements the actual hardware; the interoperability's the
>> thing.
>
> Shirley(sic) the objective is solving world poverty by improving
> education to the poor.
Soitanly! :-) And the poor might very well be best served by Microsoft
Windows Vista. (Stop moaning back there.) Once they'll learn how bad
it is, and how fast their batteries drain thereon, they'll go to Linux.
:-)
>
>> Perhaps they can even share.
>
> At this late stage, no. All Intel are concerned with now, is their
> obsession about losing market share. They don't give a crap about the
> consequences to those kids.
>
>>>> What If Every Child Had A Laptop?
>
>>> What if every child in the world used Linux?
>
>> Then we'd have a Linux monopoly.
>
> Impossible. How can the 100% adoption of freedom be a monopoly?
By definition, perhaps. To be sure, it's unlikely; FreeBSD has its
adherents, and I'm still interested in at least looking into HURD.
Plus, Linux is easily modifiable into many variants. And then
there's that other vendor with 80%-90% of the desktop market.
Linux would be a very unusual monopoly. Might even be a
natural one, though I for one am not sure how much of this
is because people love Linux software, how much of this
is because Linux-based software tends to be more reliable
-- and how much of this is because the governments want
everything to be standardized through POSIX.
The good news: once one goes POSIX, one can switch out
Linux for FreeBSD on many desktops, at least on an
experimental basis, and still have the same software
(perhaps after a rebuild, anyway).
>
> Monopolies are about greed; the obsession with money, and how to
> destroy anyone who stands in your way getting it. It's about the
> dominance of evil over good, dictatorship, fascism, the *inhibition*
> of freedom ... indeed the *prohibition* of freedom.
>
> Claiming that a world without Windows would be a world without choice,
> is like saying a world without slavery is a world without the right to
> commit human rights violations. Of course you wouldn't have the choice
> to commit that violation, freedom of choice must be moderated within
> the bounds of acceptability. If Microsoft's and Intel's recent
> behaviour tells us nothing else, it tells us that they've crossed that
> line ... in fact they *live* on the other side of it.
It would certainly appear that there is a problem.
>
>> Is this a good thing?
>
> A worldwide monopoly of freedom, to the exclusion of all corporate
> control of our society?
>
> Yes.
>
>> I'm not entirely certain. Granted, with Linux, at least in its
>> present form, that child would have a fighting chance to swap it out
>> for something else more to his liking in the future
>
> Linux development does not inhibit or subvert the widespread use of
> other systems. The same cannot be said about Windows.
>
>> After all, Linux hews to standards -- and that allows
>> interchangeability. But what's to prevent Linux from going over to
>> The Dark Side?
>
> The GPL.
The GPL is a rag of paper, if people do not honor it.
>
>> Us -- more precisely, the Linux community.
>>
>> That's about it.
>
> We are free to do anything except inhibit freedom.
>
Indeed, and that sort of contradiction actually works,
strangely enough. To be sure, the requirements may become
onerous in heavily modified software -- the main issue
being proper attribution. Otherwise, it's mostly an issue
of how much energy one has to go into there and fix a bug,
and then submit the fix to the maintainers.
--
#191, ewill3@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Linux. Because life's too short for a buggy OS.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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