Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> __/ [DFS] on Monday 17 October 2005 08:00 \__
>> John Bailo wrote:
>>> DFS wrote:
>>>> And you Access haters on cola could learn something, too, and help
>>>> open your closed Linux minds.
>>> Yes, Microsoft will tell you how great Access is when they're trying
>>> to sell copies of Office Professional.
>> It is great. My latest Access/Oracle/SQL Server/doc mgmt system is a
>> miracle of data management, usability, features and power.
>> * manage Oracle users and roles from a nice screen
>> * optionally audit user activity, and find out who the slackers are
>> (like Linonut)
>> * pass the machine login to Oracle for single point access
>> * validate app version each time user logs in (this is the real weak
>> point of 2-tier CS)
>> * smooth integration with the document mgmt system (read and write
>> docs using an API)
>> * a few user customizations with column layout, system colors, and
>> display orders
>> * advanced filtering on main datagrids
>> * pop up unique logos each time the brand changes
>> * conditional color formatting on the datagrids
>> * pop-up calendars for date selection
>> * admin screens for user session mgmt, and to take system down for
>> You could do the same things in web technologies, but it would take
>> much longer to code.
> Shopping list... very dull.
It all gets dull after a while, for me the developer. My job is to make
sure it doesn't get dull for the users and the client.
On the plus side, I always like working with Oracle, and the document mgmt
integration with Access has been interesting.
> Been there, done that.
I very much doubt you have.
> All products do merely the same.
With less aplomb than Access. Nothing else can touch it. (though the
'distribute a new fat-client update every time a bug is found' gets old).
> Those who lack, imitate rather than innovate.
That sounds like an insult.
My innovations typically lie in the areas of data analysis and presentation,
and in advanced interface functionality..
> Who is better at imitation when compared with Microshafters and their
The 'open source community' of course. What can you guys do BUT beg,
borrow, steal, imitate, clone, inspired by, based on, etc.?
On the one hand you hate MS, on the other you don't mind stealing their
>>> Of course, then the SQL Server salesman will come around and tell
>>> you that you need to clean up all those Access programs and put
>>> them in SQL Server.
>> That's their job - sell, sell, sell.
> Stop selling. Give customer what's right for /them/.
That's exactly what MS does. And they're very successful at it. In case
you hadn't heard.
>>> Bottom line: get a MySQL server and write some jdbc code with
>> Sounds like a *horrible* suggestion: for anyone outside IT, it's
>> difficult to install, difficult to admin, difficult to maintain, and
>> difficult to
>> understand. Which puts it out of the reach of most small to medium
> Au contraire. It /is/ within reach for small and medium businesses
> because it /is/ affordable.
The software is affordable (MS servers and MS Office are as well) - it's the
hiring of dedicated IT people which prices MySQL and JDBC and web systems
out of the reach of smaller organizations.
> Moreover, you said "difficult to understand". What is more
> difficult to understand than closed source and proprietary?
A MySQL database server, and JDBC code. A competent admin assistant could
install Office, and setup a simple Access database, and the whole department
could use it. Not so with the other architecture.
>> Who's going to admin the MySQL server? What is JDBC, and who's
>> going to write the code? How are the people in HR going to access
>> the database?
> The code has been written already and made GPL'd. HR people are no
Who's going to install and admin and maintain it? It's much more difficult
to create and admin and update a MySQL database than an Access db. Few
people can write Java code, many more can point-click through an Access
wizard to get a functional database in no time.
MS understands this, and has been very successful.
>> note: I write JDBC code (server-side) from time to time - I did it
>> in the past to set and get travel orders, and I'll soon have to do
>> it again, to pull data from DB2 and Domino servers, and
>> verify/update matching info in an Oracle 10g repository.
> Good. If you use it, why slag it off?
I'm not slagging it off, I'm saying it and MySQL is the wrong fit for small
businesses (some anyway), as Bailo would have you believe. BTW, he's a
Windows/.NET developer, but likes to pretend he advocates Linux and open