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Re: How Microsoft Does Bundling and Why (Comes vs. Microsoft - exhibits PX00980 and PX00928)

On Jul 28, 6:10 am, "amicus_curious" <a...@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> "Vaughn Bode" <unionpe...@xxxxxxxxx> wrote in message
> news:054e3ca3-0dc0-4e2e-9229-ef3a5106aa2c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Henry Ford for example....
> >Did Henry commit perjury?  Odd that the history books don't mention
> >that.  Well he died rich, perhaps that's why.
> Are you suggesting that Gates committed perjury?  That would be lying.

Yes. That's right. Perjury would be the special case of lying while
under oath. But surely with a handle like amicus_curious you know
that ... hold on, someone offstage is waving for my attention.  [Bzzz,
Buzzz, Bizzz, Oh!]  Ok, I'm back.  Sorry to misunderstand your
statement.  You think _I_ am the liar.  I see.  Do you remember the
tussle Microsoft had with that monopoly thing a few years back?  Gates
declared in a deposition that removing Explorer from Windows would
result in an unusable system.  A short time later, some professor DID
manage to take the IE out of Windows!  I'll bet Gates was amazed at
that.  Here is what I think happened:
  1) Gates tells some team to weave IE into Windows
  2) the team goes to work and comes back with "We are done!"
  3) A quick test shows Success, Windows less IE is broke.
  4) Gates makes the deposition.
  5) The professor proves Gates wrong.
  6) The team gets some punishment for botching the job.
  7) This summer Microsoft was set to sell Windows less IE in Europe
(whoa! how can that be?)
Gates had the IE code pushed into Windows, Gates could order the code
pried out.  I call that perjury.  Perhaps you can put a shyster's
viewpoint on this and show it in a better light.

> >> It's not a crappy product.
> >So you have a computer freshly installed with Windows95.  What are the
> >odds, just sitting there, it will survive until its clock rolls over
> >and explodes in 49 and a half days?  Get real.  Microsoft quality has
> >been a joke since the DOS days.
> If you never turned it off, that would be the case, but people do mostly
> turn computers off.  Those who did not had their problem corrected by
> cycling power and that wasn't such a burden to anyone back then.

You are making excuses for crappy code, and that issue was not the
only one.  Just using the Windows menu system to bring up a list and
cancel it, not Select, just Cancel, would result in a memory leak.
How reliable was Microsoft's word processor if you forgot to save your
work every 5 minutes?

> And the problem does not exist today.  Windows development has a long
> history of continuous improvement and people recognize that as a good thing.

More excuses.

> You may complain that things could have been anticipated and corrected prior
> to release, but the same is true for Linux.  Is it a crappy product today
> because there will certainly be things fixed in the next release?

> >> Linux *is* a crappy product, for the desktop.
> >> It's a great server system and it has a fantastic future as an
> >> embedded OS but as a desktop product it's for geeks and techs
> >> mostly.
> >And Microsoft has done a very good job at making sure no desktop OEM
> >will spend the time, money, and resources to integrate Linux, as they
> >do with Windows.
> Rather, Linux has done a poor job of convincing OEMs that there is any merit
> in integrating Linux in lieu of Windows.  There would be a lot of work to do
> and a lot of training expense to endure and there appears to be nothing to
> offset those costs.

You are ignoring the cost of Microsoft's retaliation in that
equation.  At any rate, I do not expect any of the current puter
makers to help change things.  The current industry players like
selling power sucking desktop mainframes.

> >> However, and this is important, Gates and his wife do a lot of
> >> good for the world.
> >That is the current spin.  Moshe, you are so trusting!  There is a
> >rumour all that good Gates and his wife are spreading about is only
> >available if the receiving country pledges loyalty to Windows, and
> >must be willing to accept what amounts to a spy in the cabinet.  But
> >there is no "proof", no conviction, no PR release from Microsoft
> >confirming it so it must not be true.
> Do you really think that Gates and family are into charity to promote
> Windows in the bush?

Hmmm.  Such a nicely worded question.  How about a small rephrase ...
"Do I really think that Gates [snip--->and family] would get into
charity to promote Windows in the bush?"  Yes I do.  Have you
forgotten the amazing energy Microsoft put out in the OLPC saga?
There is nothing I have seen in Gates's corporate conduct that would
indicate this would be beneath or abhorrent to him.  "And family", I
do not know how much input "and family" has in the matter except to
agree to the foundation name.  But the "and Malinda Gates" part of the
name is a good PR move.

It is of course a very nice thing when you can combine business and
pleasure, right Amicus?

>  I think that they genuinely care and feel an
> obligation to make the world a better place by using their fortunes this
> way, but even if they didn't, the idea of being the coolest guy on the
> planet and on the A-list for the world's movers and shakers would be more of
> an impetus than pushing a computer software package.  Think a little.

I think a charitable foundation is a good PR move.  If the rumours
prove wrong I will obviously change my opinion about Gates.

> >> He is a shrewd business person and of course his teachers were
> >> IBM and company.
> >> Yea, you know, the big Linux supporter.
> >No, I don't know.  When did that happen?  Didn't he go straight from
> >dropping out of college to writing software?  Well, whatever.  He must
> >have studied IBM from afar.
> Gates just had a bee in his bonnet, so to speak, about how neat software
> was, just like some Linux geek.  He had an edge in being from a well to do
> family himself and so not so worried about earning a living, but so do
> millions of others.  He was in the right place at the right time and also
> had the self-discipline or whatever focus to stay with the opportunity.
> Many others had similar opportunities and did not stay with them.
> >> Linus is smart, but let's face it the entire Linux phenom is
> >> really a fluke.
> >Democracy is a fluke.  So is Microsoft.  Everyone I know dislikes
> >Microsoft.  Their market position is held together simply because it
> >is too much work to change.  There is no brand loyalty.  The company
> >needs to skate the shady side of legal to keep this up, and very few
> >business managers can do that without screwing up royally.
> That is a rather silly position, given the facts.  I can only surmise that
> you are not a business administration student.

Actually I was.  It was the easy way out of being an engineering
student.  My high school did not prepare me for the college calculus
that all engineers need.  That and the thermodynamics class would have
been a cold dead stop.

>  You are correct in saying
> that Microsoft's market positions are secure due to market dynamics.  You
> grossly miss the effect of the Windows brand and other Microsoft brands,
> including its own name.  The legal lines are murky at best and that is why
> there are so many courts and lawyers and why you have to have trials.  There
> are many opinions and more than two sides to any issue.

There are sooooooo many murky lines.  I think the first head honcho of
Microsoft that tries to go purely legit will wreck the company.

> >> Take RMS for example.
> >> Please do....
> >And yet the mark RMS makes on the world will outlast anything Bill
> >Gates does.
> I would wager that you are very wrong, but no one will last long enough to
> collect any such bet.  Suffice it to say that any contemporaneous survey
> would show Gates to have orders of magnitude more recognition today than
> Stallman.  That is a good indicator that Stallman's light will never shine
> as bright as Gates' as both dim over time.

When RMS started, proprietary was the only way.  DEC-RT11, DG-RDOS,
ATT-Unix, and many others.  Now there is only Microsoft, Apple, Linux,
and some bit players.  vxWorks is on the way out, mainframes are small
specialty, don't know how QNX is doing.  Is BSD big enough to count
here?  Things are down to 3 big players, plus BSD.  The GPL way is
growing, not stagnant, not shrinking.

Gates will die rich, and Stallman will be poor, just as you said.  GPL
will outlast Microsoft.

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