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Re: Code of Conduct complaint about Linus's comments at DC14

Tollef Fog Heen dijo [Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 04:00:56PM +0200]:
> (...)
> > Debian should make a public statement that Linus will not be welcome
> > at Debian events in future.
> I disagree that this is a good outcome.  
> (...)
> I think we as a project managed to project quite clearly during the
> session that we didn't think it was ok to be abrasive and that we
> considered his style problematic (to put it mildly).  I think declaring
> him persona non grata instead of enganging as we did would not be
> helpful.

I fully agree with Tollef. Maybe we as a project should apologize to
the FSF for inviting somebody to our forum where it was *clearly
expected* he would act in this way. But we must recognize that Linus
was *invited* by us to come; he was never interested in joining
DebConf and he only participated with this session.

Being it was a Q&A session, we knew the question session was not
bounded; I was a bit worried when a moderator was announced (but
thankfully, it was not needed). Linus' reactions to the FSF are well
known and well expected. If you insist there was a CoC violation that
should be punished, I think it is *us* (as I'm part of the talks team
— I was not involved in inviting Linus, but would have surely approved
it) that should be named and shamed, and not him. For the very moment
this talk was announced I saw the eyes sparkle with anticipation in
many people, knowing what we would be facing.

Linus clearly stated he did not bother to read the CoC. Patty invited
people likely to feel insulted by strong language or direct attacks to
step out of the room. This was clearly a different kind of session,
that happened during our oversee as a committee, and it's us at fault
at this. Not a guest that said OK to an invitation.

In any case, I would not expect Linus to be ever interested in
attending a Debian event again. Were he to want, I'd find most
inadequate us banning him.

> Debian used to have a reputation for somewhere you'd only go if you did
> have thick skin and enjoyed flame wars.  We've changed the reality
> around that a fair bit and I believe the reputation is changing too.  I
> find it quite uplifting that we're now engaging other projects where we
> see what we consider substandard behaviour.

Yes. We have changed, and the change is good, for real, and (I think)
most welcome for most of us.

> While we did invite him, I don't think that anyone actually thinks that
> Linus is speaking on behalf of Debian and so we should not apologise to
> the FSF for Linus' words, be they true or not.

We provided a quite visible forum and audience for him to attack the
FSF again. With all well-known arguments. If somebody honestly thinks
we should issue an apology, I'd be among those that sign it.

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