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Re: Call for moderation and mediation: debian-live vs. debian-live-ng

On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 07:29:57PM +0000, Neil McGovern wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 11:41:19AM +0000, Jonathan Dowland wrote:
> > I like Joachim's idea of someone acting as an impartial intermediary, such
> > as the DPL, in the interim, and I think we should seriously consider that
> > person writing a public statement that goes some way to explain the
> > situation impartially - and crucially - publically. Easier said than done,
> > I know.
> > 
> To be honest, I'm not convinced that a mediation approach is going to
> solve anything. One of the roots of this issue seems to be an abilility
> for teams to have effective communication. The amount of time and effort
> this would take, especially considering that Daniel is fairly
> disconnected from the project these days, would be immense. I also note
> that a lot of the backlash seems to have been stired up by the peanut
> gallery - I've noted mention of Devuan a few times around this issue.
> If people want, I can draw up a statement on what the project's view of
> the issue is - it woudn't be impartial though, just as Daniel's view is
> not.

I'm curious to know what's the project's view here. I've followed more
or less all that and as someone (sort of) close do Daniel I couldn't
have a strong opinion so far. It's clear to me that there're some people
inside Debian who are still confused, while others have explicitly
stated that Iain (or the whole debian-cd team) attitude was both
socially harmfull and technically wrong. But, my impression here in
private is that we're reducing the problem on 'external users who don't
know a bit of what's really going on' vs 'internal members who're the
reasonable voices because they know something that those users are not
aware of'. If it's the case, Debian is doing a disservice for the
community on hiding the real issue. And even worst by trying to fix an
old internal war in such a terrible manner.

> Overall though - I do wonder if this is an issue that really requires a
> public statement as such. There seems to be more traffic on -private
> than elsewhere... Thoughts?

Daniel has been hurt enough and it's very unlikely that he's going to
revive Debian Live. Messages keep going on the lists and the mess is
already done. Hundreds of users and contributors are frustrated about
Debian now. And I think acting is needed. And I suspect that it's not
going to be easy to reach a consensus on such 'official' statement.

While Debian claims to have been improving its social side, this episode
leaves a terrible impression, shared not only by the so active Live
community, but also for long-term Debian members and contributors. And
so far it seems that we didn't get mature enough to talk about the real
issue in public.


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