On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 01:52:25PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> Theodore Ts'o <tytso@xxxxxxx> writes:
>
> > That being said, I suspect many people who wring their hands about
> > Linus's supposed misbehaviour on the kernel mailing lists are only
> > seeing it from the perspective of the news media who are looking for
> > click bait, just as many people felt free to jump to conclusions without
> > being there or watching the video. So what I suspect many people object
> > to is the caricature, not the reality.
>
> This is a ridiculous and clearly untrue assertion. My objections to
> Linus's poisonous and destructive behavior, which I object to having
> trivialized as "hand wringing," are based on actually reading the words
> that he wrote and said, in context, and evaluating them against the
> principles that make up a healthy and respectful community. For the
> record, I was present in the audience at Linus's Q&A, and I found Linus's
> responses profoundly disappointing and unhealthy for our community, if
> entirely expected and consistent with his previous behavior.
I said "suspect" and "many" (not "all") as it relates to the Linus's
mailing list behaviour, and there are also people who were on this
thread who quite clearly had not listened to the video or were there.
I happen to believe that the Linux kernel development community is
quite healthy, and part of that is because I've seen Linus treat some
of the targets of his "disrespectiful" behaviour quite respectfully
both before and after one of these events. And I'll submit that
unless you see the pattern of how a particular individual is treated
en toto, and not just one e-mail taken out of that larger context, you
are going to be missing critical context in judging whether or not a
particular community is healthy.
Is it right for Debian? Probably not. But they are different
communities, and I don't believe that one community should try to
impose its norms on another. Convince it that there are better ways
to behave? Sure.
But for example, I'm not sure Ian Jackson's interpretation of the CoC
may be all that healthy, especially if (as I suspect) one could
probably look for times when Stallman has spoken, perhaps even at a
Debian event, where RMS would have run afoul of Ian's interpretation
of the CoC. When the CoC is used as a cudgel to supress conversation
about opinions about morality, I'm going to gently suggest that this
is not particularly healthy. But hey, if that's where Debian wants to
go, it has the right as a community to decide to go there.
Cheers,
- Ted
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