On Wed, 2014-09-03 at 17:02 -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 03, 2014 at 01:52:25PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
> > Theodore Ts'o <tytso@xxxxxxx> writes:
> > > That being said, I suspect many people who wring their hands about
> > > Linus's supposed misbehaviour on the kernel mailing lists are only
> > > seeing it from the perspective of the news media who are looking for
> > > click bait, just as many people felt free to jump to conclusions without
> > > being there or watching the video. So what I suspect many people object
> > > to is the caricature, not the reality.
> > This is a ridiculous and clearly untrue assertion. My objections to
> > Linus's poisonous and destructive behavior, which I object to having
> > trivialized as "hand wringing," are based on actually reading the words
> > that he wrote and said, in context, and evaluating them against the
> > principles that make up a healthy and respectful community. For the
> > record, I was present in the audience at Linus's Q&A, and I found Linus's
> > responses profoundly disappointing and unhealthy for our community, if
> > entirely expected and consistent with his previous behavior.
> I said "suspect" and "many" (not "all") as it relates to the Linus's
> mailing list behaviour, and there are also people who were on this
> thread who quite clearly had not listened to the video or were there.
> I happen to believe that the Linux kernel development community is
> quite healthy, and part of that is because I've seen Linus treat some
> of the targets of his "disrespectiful" behaviour quite respectfully
> both before and after one of these events.
I agree that he does that. I don't think that makes the infrequent
> And I'll submit that
> unless you see the pattern of how a particular individual is treated
> en toto, and not just one e-mail taken out of that larger context, you
> are going to be missing critical context in judging whether or not a
> particular community is healthy.
But that is the view that all those potential contributors currently
outside the Linux kernel project are likely to have. And that surely
hurts recruitment. That's not to say there's much danger of a shortage
of kernel developers, of course; it's just a terrible selection filter.
Now there was a discussion last year about just how healthy the mailing
list culture is. It was proposed as a topic for Kernel Summit 2013
("[ATTEND] How to act on LKML" at
You agreed it should be discussed at KS:
<http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/ksummit-2013-discuss/2013-July/000380.html>. So did Linus: <http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/ksummit-2013-discuss/2013-July/000197.html>.
And then it wasn't. Why not?
Experience is directly proportional to the value of equipment destroyed.
- Carolyn Scheppner
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