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Re: Code of Conduct complaint about Linus's comments at DC14 :: Respect

On 5 September 2014 00:55, Stefano Zacchiroli <zack@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 05:46:34PM -0400, Theodore Ts'o wrote:
>> On Thu, Sep 04, 2014 at 02:18:14PM -0700, Russ Allbery wrote:
>> > Even with Linus, I'm sure that the call for deciding not to invite him to
>> > further Debian events is based on the long-term pattern of behavior, not
>> > this one incident.  And even among people who find his position generally
>> > unacceptable, you'll notice that there isn't widespread support for that
>> > action here.  (I don't agree with it in this case, for instance.)
>> And I think this is wrong.  If you want to ban him for his behavior in
>> a Debian controlled space, that's fine.  But for Debian to impose its
>> Norms on other projects by saying that people who behave in a certain
>> way when interacting in those communities which are outside of
>> Debian's is wrong.
> How you went from Russ' point about Debian right "not to invite him" and
> Debian "impose its Norms on other projects" is beyond me. Surely at
> Debian events it is Debian norms that matter rather than other
> project ones?

As I read Russ's email, the reason for Debian to "not invite him to
further Debian events" [0] was not anything he did "in this case" at
DebConf, but rather things he says on LKML and elsewhere.

The general principle from that seems to be "if, outside of the Debian
project, you act in ways we find intolerable, we won't tolerate you
within the Debian project". I think it's entirely fair to say that's
trying to impose Debian's norms on outside projects. That's not
necessarily an unreasonable thing for a group to do -- various
religions don't just care about how you behave in church, but how you
behave at home and in the workplace as well, for instance. I don't
think it's something Debian should do though.

To take a not terribly hypothetical example; I think Debian should
tolerate someone who's posting Holocaust denial stuff or discussion
about the religious ethics of killing prostitutes on their personal
website, but probably should not tolerate someone bringing that into
Debian (by publishing it to Planet Debian or
people.debian.org/~whoever, say).

Likewise if someone wants to be a troll on 4chan, a hacker in
Anonymous, a sexist, racist, misogynist, misanthrope on Usenet, or
aggressive, intolerant and hyperbolic on other lists, I think that
should be fine as far as Debian's concerned, as long as they don't do
that in Debian (on our lists, sites, IRC channels, events, etc).

(Ian's complaint was about what happened at a Debian event. My reading
of Russ's mail is that his complaint is not about anything done within
Debian. Even for someone found to be violating the CoC at a Debian
event, a permanent ban would be a fairly extreme first step, of
course. I presume that's why Russ thinks the ongoing behaviour in
other fora are relevant)


[0] which I assume is intended to mean the same thing as "ban him"
from future Debian events, given he wasn't officially invited his time

Anthony Towns <aj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

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