micah anderson wrote:
> Anthony Towns <aj@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
>
>> On 5 September 2014 16:56, Jérémy Bobbio <jeremy.bobbio@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>> Anthony Towns:
>>>> Likewise if someone wants to be a troll on 4chan, a hacker in
>>>> Anonymous, a sexist, racist, misogynist, misanthrope on Usenet, or
>>>> aggressive, intolerant and hyperbolic on other lists, I think that
>>>> should be fine as far as Debian's concerned, as long as they don't do
>>>> that in Debian (on our lists, sites, IRC channels, events, etc).
>>> I strongly disagree. Debian should be a place where all kind of people
>>> should feel welcome.
>>
>> I agree with that statement.
>>
>>> If someone contributing is known for having
>>> oppressive behaviour, even if it's outside of Debian, it might just
>>> chill me out of getting involved in the project after seeing they are
>>> involved.
>>
>> Consequently, I agree that the above would be a shame.
>>
>>> Because [how] could I know they won't have the same behaviour in
>>> Debian?
>>
>> However, I disagree here -- Debian has a code of conduct that says
>> they won't behave the same way within Debian, and listmasters,
>> conference organisers and others are ensuring that people who /do/
>> behave in those ways are removed from Debian (temporarily or
>> permanently as seems appropriate). That's how you can know they won't
>> behave the same way in Debian.
>
> If I step into a bar that is filled with men wearing white hoods[0], I'm
> going to leave immediately. I don't care if they are chatting over beers
> about the latest sports game, merrily playing ping pong while singing
> their favorite Frozen song or nursing a white russian, adhering to the
> CoC and posting to Debian lists from their iphone. I don't care if I
> know that the proprietor will throw them out at the first muttered
> racial epitaph.
>
> I'll spend my time in a more welcoming place, and I know plenty of
> others that would chose the same. I know people now who still refuse to
> simply report bugs (not to mention participate in other ways) because
> they find Debian intimidating, unwelcoming and too tolerant of bigoted
> behavior through a misguided free speech absolutist policy.
>
> micah
>
> 0. i dont care if they are involved because of emotional immaturity,
> political dysfunction, deep compensation disorder, some weird attempt to
> prove that its possible to be a respectful bigot, etc.
So back to the original question: Linus' behavior. There are many subcultures
were talking the way Linus does is the norm, where teasing and hyperbolic
insults are central to the shared humor. Yes, this is abrasive to many
people, but it is not an immoral behavior if the people in that community
accept it.
So if we say that people who share that culture are not welcome in Debian,
then Debian is truly not tolerant nor welcoming. I am someone who does share
a similar culture, I trade insults with close friends and family, "fool" is a
term of endearment. But I also realize that this is offensive to others, so I
pay attention to the context I'm in and adjust communications accordingly. But
based on how a lot of people are talking on this thread, I should also be
banned from Debian because I engage in this.
I personally think Linus needs to learn to adjust based on context, but the
LKML is also a subculture that has always been that way. Linus did not force
his ways upon some other existing community.
.hc
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